Amen and the unity of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

[Tanakh Keeper]

Ah. Where he's mainly going is to get us to buy his book.

[Nick Ginex]

Hello jo, thank you for your response and my apology for thinking you were a man. You write with a deep belief in Jesus as being God the Father, the creater of all there is. Apparently, you believe God created Jesus to create the universe instead of doing it Himself. I do not wish to argue or debate if Jesus is God because Jesus himself said in the first three Gospels that he was the Son of Man. It was only in the Gospel of John that Jesus explicitely states 5 times that he is the Son of God. To me, that does not matter. What does matter is that I believe in the words of Jesus even if he was a Man of God. It was God the Father that used Jesus as His surrogate to proclaim the Word of God. In your long discourse, you did not answer the question, what is the Word of God?

Jo, believe me, I do not plan on or wish to get rich by selling Future of God Amen. Too many people have been made fools of by religious leaders as they divide and separate our sisters and brothers into believing their God is the only true God. You probably know that the Egyptian civilization existed before and after God's (Noah's) Flood, yet many Christians believe in this myth, which is supposed to be flawless as God's inspired word. There are many inconsistencies in the Bible and there are abominations of text in the Koran. Future of God Amen provides an objective critique of the Torah, Gospels, and the Koran. More importantly, recommendatioons are provided to assist perceptive and courageous religious leaders of these religions to work together to unify their beliefs and teach the Word of God.

Perhaps, because you have the stamina to fight for the belief in God, you will read the book and become a Daughter of God. You are aware what Jesus said in John 14:12: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to my Father."

Jo, two things are understood by what Jesus said: one, that there will be others that will do greater works than what he has done and two, Jesus goes to his Father, which clearly means he is not the Father. I believe God embraced Jesus as His Son and put him on earth to pronounce the Word of God. Again, do you know what the Word of God is?

[jo7241974]

Hello jo, thank you for your response and my apology for thinking you were a man. You write with a deep belief in Jesus as being God the Father, the creater of all there is. Apparently, you believe God created Jesus to create the universe instead of doing it Himself. I do not wish to argue or debate if Jesus is God because Jesus himself said in the first three Gospels that he was the Son of Man. It was only in the Gospel of John that Jesus explicitely states 5 times that he is the Son of God. To me, that does not matter. What does matter is that I believe in the words of Jesus even if he was a Man of God. It was God the Father that used Jesus as His surrogate to proclaim the Word of God. In your long discourse, you did not answer the question, what is the Word of God?

Jo, believe me, I do not plan on or wish to get rich by selling Future of God Amen. Too many people have been made fools of by religious leaders as they divide and separate our sisters and brothers into believing their God is the only true God. You probably know that the Egyptian civilization existed before and after God's (Noah's) Flood, yet many Christians believe in this myth, which is supposed to be flawless as God's inspired word. There are many inconsistencies in the Bible and there are abominations of text in the Koran. Future of God Amen provides an objective critique of the Torah, Gospels, and the Koran. More importantly, recommendatioons are provided to assist perceptive and courageous religious leaders of these religions to work together to unify their beliefs and teach the Word of God.

Perhaps, because you have the stamina to fight for the belief in God, you will read the book and become a Daughter of God. You are aware what Jesus said in John 14:12: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to my Father."

Jo, two things are understood by what Jesus said: one, that there will be others that will do greater works than what he has done and two, Jesus goes to his Father, which clearly means he is not the Father. I believe God embraced Jesus as His Son and put him on earth to pronounce the Word of God. Again, do you know what the Word of God is?

Hi Nick,

I apologize for having my feathers ruffled. Can you forgive me?

First of all, I believe that the Word of God is Jesus Christ. Also, I believe that we are all sons and daughters of Father, spiritually speaking; therefore, I am already a daughter of God. What I do not yet know is what level of Heaven I will make it to. In order to be a joint heir with Christ, I must be able to enter a higher level of Heaven. Also, in order to be able to live in the same level of Heaven with Father, I need to be able to live in the Celestial Kindom where Father resides. I believe Jesus is the God of Abraham. As such, whenever He would ask for satan to report to him on what he was busy doing, he actually met with Christ in a lower level of Heaven - perhaps the terrestrial kindgom since he (satan) is unclean due to his sin against Father, and cannot go to where Father is due to his uncleanness. We see satan making such reports to Christ in the book of Job. I hope that I have made it clear that I do not agree with the Trinity theory which is why orthodox Christians claim I am bringing upon myself my own eternal damnation since I refuse to agree with their beliefs. Jo rolls her eyes....

I believe that the Plan of Salvation was prepared and agreed to before the foundation of our earth. God chose Jesus over Satan to not only create our world, but to also be the Saviour of our world BEFORE the world was created. Jesus wanted to give all Glory to the Father and to follow the will of the Father. Satan (Lucifer at the time), desired the glory for himself, and he wanted to take away man's free agency in order to force everyone to return to the Father and to what he wanted was apart from the will of the Father. The argument escalated to the point where satan's subordination to the Father caused him and the third of the hosts of heaven who followed satan, to be cast out of the Celetial kingdom. He was given power and dominion over the earth where he has strggled against Father's plan of salvaltion throughout all of mankinds' journey on the the earth. He was NOT gven a physical body, which is a necessary element and training ground for all of us on our continuing eternal journey, which is why He and his demons try to overtake our bodies so that they can gain the experience necessary to progress.

It is an admirable goal to desire that all of the major religions of the world unite their efforts - especially so that the two greatest commandments can be kept by ALL believers - especially toward one another.

I would lke to address your reference to John 14:12: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to my Father." I would offer for your consideration that inasmuch as He was speaking to His Apostles BEFORE Pentecost when the gift of the Holy Spirit ascended, that Jesus was teaching them privately for probably about 40 to 45 days. I am guessing that some pretty heavy training was going on between Him and His Apostles. In fact, Peter, James and John were able to witness the Transfiguration of Christ, at which time I think they received special knowldge and training apart from the other Apostles. Yet we STILL hear Jesus teaching them that He had NOT taught them everything; the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, would come and lead them to ALL Truth. Now, I would offer that if you were to take the time to see afterwards how it was that the Apostles continued to perform miracles and were able to be there for the conversion of great numbers of people with the help of the Holy Spirit descending upon the peoples, that these were the things which were greater than what Jesus has accomplished which Jesus was referring to. Inasmuch as we see Peter, James and John visiting the various church groups throughout the lands where the Disciples and Apostles were teaching the Gospel message and gaining converts to the church, we also discover that Peter, James and John were also concerned with whether or not new converts had received only the baptism by water (still being referred to as the Baptism of John the Baptist), and then making sure that they then baptized those individuals with the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands. To me this is an indication that special authorities had been given to these individuals which I recognize as the Power of the Priesthood which Jesus bestowed upon them during the 40 to 45 days of intense training receivied by the Apostles. Obviously, as in the case of Philip, he only had the authority to baptize with water. The new converts had to wait until those who had to authority to bestow the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands could do so. See:

Acts 8:12-17 KJV

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Best regards,

jo

[Tanakh Keeper]

JJo, believe me, I do not plan on or wish to get rich by selling Future of God Amen. Too many people have been made fools of by religious leaders as they divide and separate our sisters and brothers into believing their God is the only true God.

Oh really, you aren’t trying to purvey your book?

Future of God Amen provides an objective critique of the Torah, Gospels, and the Koran. More importantly, recommendatioons are provided to assist perceptive and courageous religious leaders of these religions to work together to unify their beliefs and teach the Word of God. Perhaps, because you have the stamina to fight for the belief in God, you will read the book and become a Daughter of God.

Oh no, you're not trying to sell your book {sarcasm off}
But if you DO read your book by having the proper stamina, you will become a daughter of god. Also religious leaders that read your book are perceptive and courageous. What would you call religious leaders that don’t read your book, blind and timid?

I believe God embraced Jesus as His Son and put him on earth to pronounce the Word of God.

A proof from your own mouth that you are not objective. You have your own beliefs and agenda. You too are trying to convince people that your view of gods is the only true version of gods. Your book can only be a subjective critique of various religious books.

[barnasha]

They do not worship the same God.

He who has the Son has eternal life.

He who does not have the Son does not have eternal life.

Both Jews and Muslims deny the Son....therefore, they do not worship the same God and do not have eternal life.

that contradicts the Christian Church's claim to legitimacy. there is no such thing as 'the Son' unless you are a trinitarian. not everyone is. learn to be tolerant of others.

[jo7241974]

that contradicts the Christian Church's claim to legitimacy. there is no such thing as 'the Son' unless you are a trinitarian. not everyone is. learn to be tolerant of others.

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of Almighty God. However, Christ is a completely separate Being from His Father, Almighty God. Likewise, the Holy Spirit is also a completely separate being. Therefore, I am NOT a trinitarian. Of course, according to orthodoxy, I am not a Christian either because I do not agree with their man-made trinity theory. sigh.....

jo

[Nick Ginex]

This reply is for Jo, a Daughter of God. Other people in this forum are welcomed to participate.

Of course Jo, I accept your apology for whatever you feel sorry for. However, I do not feel you have been hard on me or hurt my feelings.

Jo, I will not challenge your interpretation about what Jesus meant when he said there will be others who believe in him that will do greater works than he. I do not rationalize what Jesus said to fit my belief in God or Jesus. I simple read what he stated and believe he offers hope in the future for daughters and sons of God to improve our beliefs in God. The initial belief in one-universal God was conceived by the Ancient Egyptians and documented by the Priesthood of Amon in scripture titled, "Amon As the Sole God." This document was written centuries before the Torah, when Jewish priests wrote Genesis during the reign of Solomon. Scholars have verified that many ideas and phrases in Genesis were derived from Egyptian hymns and scripture.

Do not dismiss the religion of Ancient Egypt as being a myth. I truly believe that scripture is not cast in concrete. Just as the Egyptian Priesthood revised their conception of God until they derived the one God of all creation, changes must be made to the Bible, Gospels and the Koran. We are still evolving as human beings. People today are more educated and discerning; they cannot readily accept the myths and inconsistencies of the scriptures of today. There is only one-universal God and the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions had better work towards that one belief. They all originated from the basic belief in Amen as the God of all creation. To continue to deny that truth, acknowledged by Jesus Christ, their religions will crumble and fail as institutions to establish peace and love throughout our world.

You may dismiss the words of Jesus proclaming Amen as the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. But the mere fact that Amen is sung and announced in temples and churches should give you pause and reflect that Amen cannot not mean "So be it" when Jesus said Amen is an "entity," a faithful and true witness. You have miscontrued the words of Jesus about Amen just as you misconstrue his words about there being others who will do greater works than he.

For all your knowledge about the Bible, and specifically the Gospels, you do not appear to acknowledge the Word of God. The word is not Jesus Christ; it is what Jesus said three times in the Gospel of John. This was the last command given by Jesus and I would like to know if you agree, dismiss, or rationalize his words into something else.

My mission is to spread the Word of God. The Word is not a person; it is what God wants us to do. It is an action that glorifies God and makes Him proud of His creations.

Nick Ginex

[jo7241974]

[QUOTE]

This reply is for Jo, a Daughter of God. Other people in this forum are welcomed to participate.

Of course Jo, I accept your apology for whatever you feel sorry for. However, I do not feel you have been hard on me or hurt my feelings.

Jo, I will not challenge your interpretation about what Jesus meant when he said there will be others who believe in him that will do greater works than he. I do not rationalize what Jesus said to fit my belief in God or Jesus. I simple read what he stated and believe he offers hope in the future for daughters and sons of God to improve our beliefs in God. The initial belief in one-universal God was conceived by the Ancient Egyptians and documented by the Priesthood of Amon in scripture titled, "Amon As the Sole God." This document was written centuries before the Torah, when Jewish priests wrote Genesis during the reign of Solomon. Scholars have verified that many ideas and phrases in Genesis were derived from Egyptian hymns and scripture.

Hi Nick,

I appreciate what you are saying. When I study the Bible, I study the Bible as a whole. Therefore, passages from one book will absolutely correlate with other passages. I will admit that I do not understand all passages - that is either because I am not yet ready to personally understand it, or God's purpose is to keep it a mystery. I do believe, however, that everyone will understand the Bible in the same way once the mystery of God has been revealed to the world in the end times. Therefore, when I offered for your consideration that you view what transpired in the actions of the Apostles after Jesus' Ascension, it was in keeping with the manner I believe the Bible should be studied; i.e., as a whole. Likewise, if I come across something that seems to contradict another understanding, then I look at my understanding to try to find where the conflict is coming from. I do not try to twist the Bible to agree with something I want it to say in order for there to be no contradiction.

Your information about the Egyptians is intriguing. Do you know if it pre-dates Job? Inasmuch as I believe man worshiped God from the time of Adam and Eve, it does not surprise me for us to find elements of altars, worship, life after death (even if only spiritually speaking) to be found in all religions. It could be that the Egyptians were the first to really try to formally create a written record of their beliefs which is how it is that scholars are using Egyptian writings to compare with the writings of other religions. Judaic religious traditions were generally passed on verbally. Who is to say which religion first influenced the other?

Do not dismiss the religion of Ancient Egypt as being a myth. I truly believe that scripture is not cast in concrete. Just as the Egyptian Priesthood revised their conception of God until they derived the one God of all creation, changes must be made to the Bible, Gospels and the Koran. We are still evolving as human beings. People today are more educated and discerning; they cannot readily accept the myths and inconsistencies of the scriptures of today. There is only one-universal God and the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religions had better work towards that one belief. They all originated from the basic belief in Amen as the God of all creation. To continue to deny that truth, acknowledged by Jesus Christ, their religions will crumble and fail as institutions to establish peace and love throughout our world.

I do not dismiss the religion of Ancient Egypt as being a myth. I also believe that many books which were written and/or tell us of other Prophets who lived in OT times have been lost; thus were never made canon. I also believe that in spite of any errors that have been made througout the history of mankind when translating scripture, will have little effect on the message being taught. That is because, if you leave man's determinations out of the picture, and allow yourself to be led by the Holy Spirit, then the message you are supposed to have revealed to you will be revealed to you.

You may dismiss the words of Jesus proclaming Amen as the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God. But the mere fact that Amen is sung and announced in temples and churches should give you pause and reflect that Amen cannot not mean "So be it" when Jesus said Amen is an "entity," a faithful and true witness. You have miscontrued the words of Jesus about Amen just as you misconstrue his words about there being others who will do greater works than he.

There are many "titles" described in the Bible. Even "death" and "hell" are titles; but, are also representative of specific beings or entities or powers whose names are "death" and "hell". For instance, when Jesus rebuked Peter and called him "satan", Jesus was using the title of satan to describe Peter's actions at that moment. We know that Peter is NOT Satan. Likewise, in the end times, death and hell will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone where they will no longer have any power over mankind.

For all your knowledge about the Bible, and specifically the Gospels, you do not appear to acknowledge the Word of God. The word is not Jesus Christ; it is what Jesus said three times in the Gospel of John. This was the last command given by Jesus and I would like to know if you agree, dismiss, or rationalize his words into something else.

Christ holds many different titles in the Bible. One of those titles is "the Word". When the vision of Revelation is being revealed to John, I believe it is Christ who is the Amen, the faithful and true witness.

My mission is to spread the Word of God. The Word is not a person; it is what God wants us to do. It is an action that glorifies God and makes Him proud of His creations.

I believe that in this instance, you are using "Word of God" NOT as a "title", but as the actual teachings of God. I have no problem with that. I think that most people make the distinctions in their own minds between the title of Word of God as being Christ versus the teachings of God which are the "word(s) of God" being used to describe those teachings while they are reading scripture. Perhaps we are talking past each other.

God bless you,

jo

[Bowman]

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of Almighty God. However, Christ is a completely separate Being from His Father, Almighty God. Likewise, the Holy Spirit is also a completely separate being. Therefore, I am NOT a trinitarian. Of course, according to orthodoxy, I am not a Christian either because I do not agree with their man-made trinity theory. sigh.....

jo

Correct...you are not a Christian.

[jo7241974]

Correct...you are not a Christian.

I still pray to the same Heavenly Father and believe in the same Jesus Christ I did when I was a Lutheran. I am sorry you have swallowed the restrictions of orthodox belief. You are wrong. Indeed, you are not Christ and are not able to Judge my soul.

jo

[RBerman]

I still pray to the same Heavenly Father and believe in the same Jesus Christ I did when I was a Lutheran. I am sorry you have swallowed the restrictions of orthodox belief. You are wrong. Indeed, you are not Christ and are not able to Judge my soul.

Jo, how did you come to be a Mormon? I didn't realize you had converted; most Mormons these days were raised as Mormons.

[Bowman]

I still pray to the same Heavenly Father and believe in the same Jesus Christ I did when I was a Lutheran. I am sorry you have swallowed the restrictions of orthodox belief. You are wrong. Indeed, you are not Christ and are not able to Judge my soul.

jo

Biblical scripture clearly teaches the Trinity, sister....OT through NT.

To deny this is to deny the creator who has revealed Himself as such.

LDS is a cult with the sole intention of denying Jesus' deity.

Same as Judaism, Islam, JW's, etc, etc...

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your position and actually study what the scriptures tell us instead of relying upon man-made doctrines...yes?

[Tanakh Keeper]

...when Jewish priests wrote Genesis during the reign of Solomon.

G-d created Torah at the same time as He created the world. G-d dictated the five books (including Genesis) to Moses during his lifetime. This was way before Solomon was born.

[jo7241974]

Jo, how did you come to be a Mormon? I didn't realize you had converted; most Mormons these days were raised as Mormons.

A very long story shortened, what the Bible taught me is NOT what the Lutherans were teaching me. I made that discovery when I was taking my class to prepare me for my first communion. The biggest difference was, in fact, the trinity. My Pastor could not convince me the trinity theory is correct. It wasn't until nine years after that when I was introduced to the LDS Church. After months of careful study and much, much praying, I joined the LDS Church. That was 36 years ago. It was the best decision I have ever made in my entire life.

You'd be surprised how many converts to the Church were not raised LDS.

jo

[jo7241974]

Biblical scripture clearly teaches the Trinity, sister....OT through NT.

To deny this is to deny the creator who has revealed Himself as such.

LDS is a cult with the sole intention of denying Jesus' deity.

Same as Judaism, Islam, JW's, etc, etc...

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your position and actually study what the scriptures tell us instead of relying upon man-made doctrines...yes?

Sorry Bowman,

I have been refuting your trinity theory since I was 13 years old when I first discovered that that is what the Lutheran church was teaching. It has been an even longer time, however, that I believed that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate and individual Beings......that would be since I first learned to read.

I have heard all of the arguments in favor of the trinity - but the numbers of mankind who agree to the trinity mean nothing to me. My faith and beliefs about God are not based on a show-of-hands vote taken by man. Since it was the Holy Spirit who taught me there are three separate Beings in the Godhead, I never learned this by listening to man's doctrine. Therefore your argument is based upon a false premise when you assume that it was man who taught me this doctrine.

You DO puppet quite well what you have been taught by man. I know what the Holy Spirit has taught me; you do not. Indeed your efforts to derail this thread are duly noted.

jo