Amen and the unity of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

[franktalk]

Addressed to Jo

It seems pretty inoccuous to say that there are things Jesus said and did that the Bible does not record; John 20:30 and John 21:25 make this same observation. I trust God that if it was important for me to know those things right now, He would have included them in the Bible. But surely you can see the problem when "The Holy Spirit told me so" becomes a trump card. For instance, the Holy Spirit told me that Mormonism started as a sex cult to satisfy the lust of the false prophet Joseph Smith, just as many other false prophets before and since have done. But when I said so, it seems to have made you mad. Why are you resisting the witness of the Holy Spirit?

So the Holy Ghost speaks to you in complete sentences and about issues that support your man made belief in orthodoxy. I guess that since you have this revealed to you there must be way more that has been said. Please list all of the things the Holy Ghost has told you. Curious minds want to know. Have you considered that you are a prophet of God? Why not just start your sentences the way the prophets did. Thus sayth the Lord ...... I am sure the Holy Ghost would not mind being quoted.

[RBerman]

So the Holy Ghost speaks to you in complete sentences and about issues that support your man made belief in orthodoxy. I guess that since you have this revealed to you there must be way more that has been said. Please list all of the things the Holy Ghost has told you. Curious minds want to know. Have you considered that you are a prophet of God? Why not just start your sentences the way the prophets did. Thus sayth the Lord ...... I am sure the Holy Ghost would not mind being quoted.

Such sarcasm and bitterness! I hope you don't claim to represent Christ with such words. But in answer to your question: The Holy Spirit told me that Joseph Smith is a false prophet when I read what Joseph Smith said in the King Follett discourse about God the Father having been born as a man who subsequently became God.

[franktalk]

RBerman,

My post is measure for measure a reflection of the post I respond to. You indicated that the Holy Spirit speaks to you at a level that I have not found in many people. What I have found in common with all of those people is an ego that uses the Bible as a soap box. So you are either a prophet or you have fallen into the trap set in scripture. Scripture is written so many will see it as foolishness, others will see it as an opportunity to prop themselves up. Scripture is a stumbling block for those who seek pride and refuse to humble themself. I don't know the detail of doctrine and which is correct or not. Many things I hope to learn after I am dead. But until then when I come across someone like you I point out in strong terms that you are of the world yet cover yourself with the pages of the Bible.

The core Gospel is very clear and the main commandments are clear as well. Beyond that scripture is a stumbling block.

All churches suffer the same fate. Men try and tell others what God means in scripture. Read it for yourself. Don't read scripture for me. If you think that you have some special connection to scripture that is fine, you and God can have that special relationship. I too have a special relationship with God. But God tells me not to judge others but to spread the good news. I have a deep respect for anyone who says they love God. You on the other hand tell people that say they love Jesus that they are really worshipping Satan. I really hope that works for you. The Pharisees and the Saducess had this same mindset. With this in mind I limit what I tell people to believe in. But for those who are playing the role of a Pharisee you are fair game.

[RBerman]

RBerman,

My post is measure for measure a reflection of the post I respond to. You indicated that the Holy Spirit speaks to you at a level that I have not found in many people. What I have found in common with all of those people is an ego that uses the Bible as a soap box. So you are either a prophet or you have fallen into the trap set in scripture. Scripture is written so many will see it as foolishness, others will see it as an opportunity to prop themselves up. Scripture is a stumbling block for those who seek pride and refuse to humble themself. I don't know the detail of doctrine and which is correct or not. Many things I hope to learn after I am dead. But until then when I come across someone like you I point out in strong terms that you are of the world yet cover yourself with the pages of the Bible.

The core Gospel is very clear and the main commandments are clear as well. Beyond that scripture is a stumbling block.

All churches suffer the same fate. Men try and tell others what God means in scripture. Read it for yourself. Don't read scripture for me. If you think that you have some special connection to scripture that is fine, you and God can have that special relationship. I too have a special relationship with God. But God tells me not to judge others but to spread the good news. I have a deep respect for anyone who says they love God. You on the other hand tell people that say they love Jesus that they are really worshipping Satan. I really hope that works for you. The Pharisees and the Saducess had this same mindset. With this in mind I limit what I tell people to believe in. But for those who are playing the role of a Pharisee you are fair game.

You seem pretty comfortable judging the state of my heart. I submit myself to God's judgment and mercy. These sorts of conversations tend to turn into "You're the Pharisee." and "No, you're the Pharisee." pretty quickly, so I think I'll bow out before either of us gets sucked into that. But I will not pretend that someone's doing just fine when I believe that they're actually driving toward a cliff they can't see. I hope others will do the same for me.

[franktalk]

You seem pretty comfortable judging the state of my heart. I submit myself to God's judgment and mercy. These sorts of conversations tend to turn into "You're the Pharisee." and "No, you're the Pharisee." pretty quickly, so I think I'll bow out before either of us gets sucked into that. But I will not pretend that someone's doing just fine when I believe that they're actually driving toward a cliff they can't see. I hope others will do the same for me.

I have no problem with your faith in God. You have so much right and little wrong. But don't turn the love of Christ into a judgement of others. The commandment to not judge is so difficult, we want to shake people and tell them how screwed up they are. But that is not our job. Our job is to talk about the Gospel and be a light. No light comes from a person telling another they are wrong. Talking to you is not what I am supposed to do. I should turn away and let you alone. You could be so much more if you did less. I know that seems silly but it is true. The humble man is not found on a soap box telling others how wrong they are.

[franktalk]

To all,

The purpose of religion is to provide a place for fellowship and to organize to help the poor. Now many of the churches or other houses of worship have a set of doctrines that they hold dear. But the widespread beliefs in doctrines of one form or another are not part of the core message. If the churches fight amonst themself over this doctrine it distorts the face of the Gospel.

Imagine that you have no faith and you wish to know the beliefs of Christians. Imagine the image that is projected to that person. Each Church telling this new person that they have it right and all others are going to hell. This is not what Christ had in mind. If each Church held their doctrine and invited the new person to join them if they too saw scripture say what they believe then let the new person make their choice. If we all said that many details of scripture will be cleared up in the afterlife then we all would be a light. But we are no light today. The only church that would be a light is one that has a mission statement having tollerance for other churches.

Any church that supports a war with another is not of God. But even in that church there will be members that don't believe the goals of their own church.

Tonight I will be talking about the book of Revelation. I expect a lively discussion and many opinions. The people that I will be having that discussion with are tollerant of others and realize that scripture says many things. But we all share a desire to know. At the same time we know we are no prophets.

[RBerman]

I have no problem with your faith in God. You have so much right and little wrong. But don't turn the love of Christ into a judgement of others. The commandment to not judge is so difficult, we want to shake people and tell them how screwed up they are. But that is not our job. Our job is to talk about the Gospel and be a light. No light comes from a person telling another they are wrong. Talking to you is not what I am supposed to do. I should turn away and let you alone. You could be so much more if you did less. I know that seems silly but it is true. The humble man is not found on a soap box telling others how wrong they are.

As I read this post, my irony detector begins to fire uncontrollably. May God bless your discussion of Revelation tonight.

[franktalk]

As I read this post, my irony detector begins to fire uncontrollably. May God bless your discussion of Revelation tonight.

You are so right that my posts are directly opposite what I am telling you. But now that we are here I hope you see the message. I am not trying to change your beliefs but what I would like to see is a change in behavior. Now if your beliefs tell you to seek others and argue with them so they will see scripture the way you do then I have to ask why? Why is it that some people who believe in Christ need correcting? If indeed the Holy Ghost told you the truth in scripture then you should be happy that you received that message. Did you also receive a message to fight other Christians about doctrine? I think not. Why not let the Holy Ghost do for others what it did for you.

[RBerman]

You are so right that my posts are directly opposite what I am telling you. But now that we are here I hope you see the message. I am not trying to change your beliefs but what I would like to see is a change in behavior. Now if your beliefs tell you to seek others and argue with them so they will see scripture the way you do then I have to ask why? Why is it that some people who believe in Christ need correcting? If indeed the Holy Ghost told you the truth in scripture then you should be happy that you received that message. Did you also receive a message to fight other Christians about doctrine? I think not. Why not let the Holy Ghost do for others what it did for you.

We all need correction, myself included. Most people on this forum are here because they like to discuss and even debate. You obviously have this impulse, because you participate and offer critique yourself, even responding to my posts that were addressed to Jo. It can degenerate into fighting and arguing, but if people remain cordial, that's not necessary.

[Bowman]

To all,

The purpose of religion is to provide a place for fellowship and to organize to help the poor. Now many of the churches or other houses of worship have a set of doctrines that they hold dear. But the widespread beliefs in doctrines of one form or another are not part of the core message. If the churches fight amonst themself over this doctrine it distorts the face of the Gospel.

Imagine that you have no faith and you wish to know the beliefs of Christians. Imagine the image that is projected to that person. Each Church telling this new person that they have it right and all others are going to hell. This is not what Christ had in mind. If each Church held their doctrine and invited the new person to join them if they too saw scripture say what they believe then let the new person make their choice. If we all said that many details of scripture will be cleared up in the afterlife then we all would be a light. But we are no light today. The only church that would be a light is one that has a mission statement having tollerance for other churches.

Any church that supports a war with another is not of God. But even in that church there will be members that don't believe the goals of their own church.

Tonight I will be talking about the book of Revelation. I expect a lively discussion and many opinions. The people that I will be having that discussion with are tollerant of others and realize that scripture says many things. But we all share a desire to know. At the same time we know we are no prophets.

So what...?

'Churches' and 'religions' are mere distractions from what matters...and that is your relationship with the creator of the Universe, Jesus Christ.

Focus your energies in the right direction, brother...

[Bowman]

We all need correction, myself included. Most people on this forum are here because they like to discuss and even debate. You obviously have this impulse, because you participate and offer critique yourself, even responding to my posts that were addressed to Jo. It can degenerate into fighting and arguing, but if people remain cordial, that's not necessary.

Agreed, brother...

[Nick Ginex]

Dear Mr. Bowman,

You need to reflect on your response, "What a gargantuan cop-out brother!" You did not respond to any portion of what I wrote except to get mad. You are the one who has copped-out and rather accuse Jo and I of not being honest with ourselves. Of the many responses I have read that are yours, I find you believe you are all-knowing, judgemental, and quck to sarcasm. You do not reflect the temperment of a wise and understanding man but one who appears to stand at the pulpit and dictate why everybody is wrong and you know the Word.

I have asked you to reveal to our readers what is the Word of God? Can you give a clear and simple answer? It will allow me to understand and respect your knowledge about the Bible. Tell me, is the Word of God found in the OT or the NT? Your ability to answer this question will help me to determine if we are both on the same wavelength.

Nick Ginex

[Bowman]

Dear Mr. Bowman,

You need to reflect on your response, "What a gargantuan cop-out brother!" You did not respond to any portion of what I wrote except to get mad. You are the one who has copped-out and rather accuse Jo and I of not being honest with ourselves. Of the many responses I have read that are yours, I find you believe you are all-knowing, judgemental, and quck to sarcasm. You do not reflect the temperment of a wise and understanding man but one who appears to stand at the pulpit and dictate why everybody is wrong and you know the Word.

I have asked you to reveal to our readers what is the Word of God? Can you give a clear and simple answer? It will allow me to understand and respect your knowledge about the Bible. Tell me, is the Word of God found in the OT or the NT? Your ability to answer this question will help me to determine if we are both on the same wavelength.

Nick Ginex

Nice emotion driven response, brother.

Show us where Jesus was created in scripture, and then you will have your answer...

[Nick Ginex]

Dear Mr. Bowman, rather than guess, what is a JW?

It seems you do not like to deal with the information and statements I made concerning the Trinity. You do not seem to know how or if Jesus was created. If you know, why don't you say so and enlighten our readers with your knowledge. I do not think I posses the biblical knowledge you have, so teach me. I am open-minded, fair, and intelligent enough to learn from you. If you are willing to share your knowledge, it will be appreciated. Also, please tell me if you know the Word of God. It is not the whole Bible because it consists of many myths, inconsistencies, and ordinances that applied to a distant age. But I am sure with your dedication to studies of the Bible you can find the answer. I give you a hint as to where I believe the Word of God has been presented. It has to be in the NT for that is where the Word is presented.

Give it a go Mr. Bowman. Please enlighten us to the Word of God. If you are unable to find it, I will give you what I believe is the answer and we can have a nice conversation in a civil manner.

Nick Ginex

[Nick Ginex]

Mr. Bowman, once again you evade to show your knowledge of the Bible. Are you ignorant of what the Word of God is?

Don't be afraid to commit yourself to sharing your knowledge. I am a very tolerant and courteous man. Answer my question and stop being evasive. If you are unable to answer, say so. I will not lose my respect for your participation on this forum and my Post.

Nick Ginex