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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

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How God Predestines Things

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  • How God Predestines Things

    Acts 4:27-28 states, "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."

    This is part of a prayer by Peter and John. They are saying that Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel did whatever God had predestined to take place. How did God go about predestining what they would do? Did God make a plan that they would act according to their desires and that nothing would stop them from carrying out their desires?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jaxb View Post
    Acts 4:27-28 states, "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."

    This is part of a prayer by Peter and John. They are saying that Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel did whatever God had predestined to take place. How did God go about predestining what they would do? Did God make a plan that they would act according to their desires and that nothing would stop them from carrying out their desires?
    God can't act outside of what He foreknows. And what He foreknows, He creates the world according to that.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      God can't act outside of what He foreknows. And what He foreknows, He creates the world according to that.
      Does God foreknow because He decides what is going to happen in the future or does His foreknowledge determine what His plan is going to be like?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jaxb View Post
        Does God foreknow because He decides what is going to happen in the future or does His foreknowledge determine what His plan is going to be like?
        The latter. And He foreknows it because of the "Eternal Now"
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          The latter. And He foreknows it because of the "Eternal Now"
          God is omniscient. But the Son of God always being of two natures, now eternally incarnate (Hebrews 13:8), has both in time past and now limited His foreknowing (Genesis 22:12, ". . . now I know . . . ," John 1:18; Acts 1:7, Mark 13:32).
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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          • #6
            Originally posted by JaxB
            How did God go about predestining what they would do? Did God make a plan that they would act according to their desires and that nothing would stop them from carrying out their desires?
            Easy: He didn't tell them what his plan was.

            1 Corinthians 2:7-8
            But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jaxb View Post
              Acts 4:27-28 states, "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."

              This is part of a prayer by Peter and John. They are saying that Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel did whatever God had predestined to take place. How did God go about predestining what they would do? Did God make a plan that they would act according to their desires and that nothing would stop them from carrying out their desires?
              This passage has a close cousin (in content) to that found in Acts 2:23...and I believe that, while it clearly teaches that the event of the crucifixion was indeed predestined, it does not (necessarily) teach, or really even suggest that the individuals who carried out this event were predestined to do so.
              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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