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A great grandmother has been praying to Elrond thinking he was Saint Anthony

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    True, and that's an interesting way of looking at it, yet, the sanctification of icons, relics, and the like means more than that, doesn't it? It's not simply sentimental value attributed to these things, but something...divine, right?
    I suppose sentimental is too weak of a word. These statues or images were prayerfully crafted, and involved in either private or communal prayer. I suppose it would be less healthy for us not to regard these things as having some special value beyond their artistic merit. After all, if we think of Michelangelo's sculptures and paintings only from the aesthetic standpoint, we're missing out on something, aren't we?

    In your experience as a Catholic, have you ever come across a fellow Catholic that had what you would consider an...unhealthy understanding and devotion towards religious statues and figurines?
    No. I honestly can't think of any. Maybe someone who grew up in a pre-Vatican II Church or in a different part of the world would have a different perspective, but...

    I certainly have run across people like that on the Protestant side. For instance, I know a lot of people who would consider themselves Christian because they believe in what basically amounts to a sort of cosmic karma. Their understanding of Christianity is essentially limited to the idea that if they're relatively good people (compared to those really bad people out there) then they'll go to heaven one day, and meet a God who has a white beard, and wears white robes, and they'll float into the sky and sit on clouds talking to their family members for all eternity. The significance of the cross, their own sin, and Jesus' death is completely lost on them. I think this sort of karmic version of Christianity-lite that they believe in his potentially damning, yet, I don't think they're stupid for holding these views, only misinformed. I know other people who would consider themselves a sort of Protestant who believe in a sort of New Age angelology, and have a very unhealthy devotion towards angels. In fact, some of that devotion can get downright demonic in my opinion. Again, I don't think these people are stupid, just ignorant of the truth.
    Catholicism certainly has people who have embraced vapid and/or strange theologies, and I could certainly talk about a few of them, but a preoccupation with religious images really isn't one of the problems I've noticed.
    Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by mossrose
      Kasha says I am a great grandmother.

      You are a great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-10999999999 Grandmother.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        Ok, thanks. Would an icon be considered holy even if it left the sanctuary? Like, if someone stole an icon, or a relic, would it retain it's holiness in the hands or home of the thief, or to an art collector, or what-have-you?
        Yes.
        It seems to me that in CP's example, the incense is holy as it pertains to it's use in the temple, but outside of the temple it doesn't have any property of "holiness", and only then because the pre-New Covenant people required tangible items like temples, arks, incense, and the like to conceptualize God's spirit dwelling among them, but under the New Covenant, where we all have His spirit dwelling within us as the temple of God, this is no longer necessary, or even beneficial.
        I'm not sure the pre-New Covenant people "required" any such thing. On the other hand, I think it is quite beneficial, even under the New Covenant, to have more than the written and aural word. When I attend Protestant services now, they seem "flat" to me.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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