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Cogito ergo sum

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Compatibalism

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  • Compatibalism

    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    That is indeed what I meant, New York and Chicago exist in physically different spatial locations, different temporal events exist in different temporal locations.
    Jedidiah, are you a Calvinist? Because the B-Theory of time logically leads to strict determinism.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    Jedidiah, are you a Calvinist? Because the B-Theory of time logically leads to strict determinism.
    I am a compatiblist. I see both free will and predestination taught in scripture so both must be true.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    • #3
      Compatibalism

      Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
      I am a compatiblist. I see both free will and predestination taught in scripture so both must be true.
      While I certainly have different reasoning behind my compatibilism, it is certainly comforting to know that I'm not alone on these boards!
      "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
      --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
        While I certainly have different reasoning behind my compatibilism, it is certainly comforting to know that I'm not alone on these boards!
        I am also a compatibilist.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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        • #5
          Compatibilism is just another word for determinism since it denies libertarian free will.
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            Compatibilism is just another word for determinism since it denies libertarian free will.
            How is "libertarian free will" different than regular old free will? This rabbit trail is a bit too much for this thread though.
            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
              How is "libertarian free will" different than regular old free will? This rabbit trail is a bit too much for this thread though.
              That is the problem, the definition of free will. That is why we had to add libertarian.The power of contrary choice which Compatibilism denies.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                Compatibilists are not necessarily Determinists. They simply see no conflict between Free Will and Determinism.

                However, I am quite happy to admit that I am a Determinist. I simply also happen to be a Compatibilist.
                Well I have yet to meet a Compatibilist who accepts libertarian freedom, which is the only way to escape determinism.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Well I have yet to meet a Compatibilist who accepts libertarian freedom, which is the only way to escape determinism.
                  I have met Compatibilists who remain agnostic as regards libertarian freedom. They basically do not think that libertarian freedom is a necessary condition of Free Will, but neither are they convinced that libertarian freedom should be rejected.
                  "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                  --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Well I have yet to meet a Compatibilist who accepts libertarian freedom, which is the only way to escape determinism.
                    Although I haven't given a whole lot of thought to the subject, from a purely common sense perspective compatibilism sounds like rubbish to me. I just googled it and tend to agree with W. James who called it a "quagmire of evasion" and E. Kant who called it a "wretched subterfuge" and "word jugglery." I do believe in free will though, I'm not sure how it comes about or works in an otherwise determined universe, but I'm guessing there is something about the brain which we don't yet understand that allows it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      Although I haven't given a whole lot of thought to the subject...
                      You probably should have stopped here.

                      ...from a purely common sense perspective compatibilism sounds like rubbish to me. I just googled it and tend to agree with W. James who called it a "quagmire of evasion" and E. Kant who called it a "wretched subterfuge" and "word jugglery."
                      You don't think that forming an opinion about a rather complex philosophical subject based solely on a quick Google search is just a bit premature? I could understand, "I just Googled it, and I don't really find the arguments I've read for it to be convincing." But to call it "rubbish" based on an admittedly poor understanding of the subject is somewhat ridiculous.
                      "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                      --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                        You probably should have stopped here.

                        You don't think that forming an opinion about a rather complex philosophical subject based solely on a quick Google search is just a bit premature? I could understand, "I just Googled it, and I don't really find the arguments I've read for it to be convincing." But to call it "rubbish" based on an admittedly poor understanding of the subject is somewhat ridiculous.
                        Oh please. Of course its premature, thats why I said that it "sounds" like rubbish to me, not that I know its rubbish. If I had to guess based upon what I have read concerning determinism and free will, then the idea of compatibilism sounds like rubbish.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                          You don't think that forming an opinion about a rather complex philosophical subject based solely on a quick Google search is just a bit premature? I could understand, "I just Googled it, and I don't really find the arguments I've read for it to be convincing." But to call it "rubbish" based on an admittedly poor understanding of the subject is somewhat ridiculous.
                          Well I have studied it and the fact is you can not be both free, in any real sense, and determined. That is a contradiction in terms. Generally the Compatibilists will define freedom as the ability to act on our desires and inclinations free from outside agency. But that our desires and inclinations are determined by antecedent conditions and biology. But if that is the case, we could call our dogs free, it is not a meaningful description of freedom.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Oh please. Of course its premature, thats why I said that it "sounds" like rubbish to me, not that I know its rubbish. If I had to guess based upon what I have read concerning determinism and free will, then the idea of compatibilism sounds like rubbish.
                            If you realize that it's a premature, ill-informed, and poorly constructed opinion, then what it the point of sharing it? Imagine, for a moment, that someone said, "I haven't given a whole lot of thought to non-Euclidean geometry, but I just Googled it, and it sounds like rubbish to me." What would you think?
                            "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                            --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Well I have studied it and the fact is you can not be both free, in any real sense, and determined. That is a contradiction in terms. Generally the Compatibilists will define freedom as the ability to act on our desires and inclinations free from outside agency. But that our desires and inclinations are determined by antecedent conditions and biology. But if that is the case, we could call our dogs free, it is not a meaningful description of freedom.
                              I do call our dogs free. Why does the fact that a dog's choices are freely made, on this definition, imply that this is not a meaningful description of freedom?
                              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                              Comment

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