The Israeli-Palestine conflict

[seer]

Is it HaShem's will (God's will) then nothing we can do about it.

I guess we can say that it is God's will that there is a Jewish State then.

[elam]

And with anti-Semitism rising world wide perhaps those 58% will decide to immigrate.

World Jewish Population

Like I said, there was never a Palestinian state ruled by the native Palestinians (they never had self-rule as I made clear). And I don't see why the Arabs have more of a right to the land than the Jews? Because the Jews were forced from their homeland back in the day?

Comparatively the Promised Land was home to the Jews in ancient times for a about half the number of years that the Palestinians (Arab-Muslims & Arab-Christians) had occupied the land in relatively modern times.

Also the Palestinians have never been accused by HaShem (God) and dispatched from their homeland by the will of HaShem (God).

The Roman's had a policy of "client kings". These had complete autonomy but had to pay tribute (just as Israel pays its dues to the UN).

[seer]

39.2% of World Jewry live in the USA.. Why would they want or need to immigrate.

Including Israel & the USA World Jewry is distributed across 111 countries.

Here are some stats for you to consider...

Well things are OK, in some countries right now, but it may not remain that way. Again the rising anti-Semitism in Europe.

French Jews are fleeing the country at an unprecedented rate amid rising anti-Semitism and fears of more Isis-inspired assaults and mass casualty terror attacks.

but consistent with what over the past few years has become the largest mass movement of Jews since the formation of Israel in 1948.

The overriding reason Jews cite for leaving France as a steady rise in the rate of anti-Semitism over the past 15 years.

A 2013 EU poll found that 74% of French Jews are now so scared of being attacked for their religion that take steps to prevent themselves being identified as Jewish.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6832391.html

Given the history of Jewish hatred and persecution having their own defensible homeland is an existential necessity.

Comparatively the Promise Land was home to the Jews for a about half the number of years of the occupancy of the Palestinians.

What? So they were forced from their homeland and it is their fault that they were not there?

The Roman's had a policy of "client kings". These had complete autonomy but had to pay tribute (just as Israel pays its dues to the UN).

Nonsense, no one had complete autonomy under Roman Rule. Did the Jews have autonomy under Roman Rule?

[elam]

Well things are OK, in some countries right now, but it may not remain that way. Again the rising anti-Semitism in Europe.

Imu, at the moment "the haters" have better targets than the Jews.

Here are some more stats: Jewish Population by Country

Given the history of Jewish hatred and persecution having their own defensible homeland is an existential necessity.

Not necessarily. Israel was established as Europe's solution to the Jewish problem. Many European countries were sympathetic to the Nazi point of view and that persists despite the Holocaust. Israel is a sitting target for anyone that wants to impose "the final solution" on the Jews, and conveniently 43.4% are stuck in one place, surrounded by unfriendlies. The diaspora seems a safer option to me...

The hatred of the Jews goes back to the Christian usury laws. Jews were the bankers (foreclosures) and money lenders (exploiters of personal property). In more modern times the hatred stems from the Capitalist competition with Socialism & Communism.- Marx & Lenin were Jews (Marx father was born a Jew, Lenin's maternal grandfather was a Jew). Jews seems to excel in the professions that people distrusted/disliked = auditors, lawyers etc. Jews also had a tendency to excel in the arts (perception of promiscuity) and intellectual pursuits (which the peasantry were/are distrustful). Investigate the why of the hatred and we discover it rarely has anything to do with religion. Anti-semiticism falls into the same bucket as homophobia or any other irrational prejudice...

What? So they were forced from their homeland and it is their fault that they were not there?

It was HaShem's (God's) will that they were cast out of the promised land according to the Jewish scriptures.

Nonsense, no one had complete autonomy under Roman Rule. Did the Jews have autonomy under Roman Rule?

You really need to go read the histories. Most provences had complete autonomy under the Pax Roma, as long as they paid tribute and obeyed the international law of the day. When a client state didn't Rome would intervene.

Modern Israel is a client state of the USA, who keeps Israel afloat, armed & defended. Israel is also subject to the World Court, the IMF etc etc etc

[seer]

It was HaShem's (God's) will that they were cast out of the promised land according to the Jewish scriptures.

Well since there is now a Jewish State, and since it will not go away without a World War or at least without a Nuclear exchange, do you agree that it is God's will that the Jewish State Exists? And don't you believe that there are Scriptures speak to the return of the Jews?

http://www.adishakti.org/_/regatheri...he_messiah.htm

[elam]

Well since there is now a Jewish State, and since it will not go away without a World War or at least without a Nuclear exchange, do you agree that it is God's will that the Jewish State Exists? And don't you believe that there are Scriptures speak to the return of the Jews?

http://www.adishakti.org/_/regatheri...he_messiah.htm

As far as I am aware, HaShem never indicated a return of the Jews to the Promised Land once His final solution was implemented. In His mercy He'd already given them multiple chances. So I would estimate that what we are witnessing is the will of man and the subterfuge of the ungodly powers.

As I suggested earlier: have a read of Josephus' the Jewish Wars. Also have a read of his The Antiquities of the Jews. They are available online.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/histo...vius-josephus/

From where I sit, the Jews in general haven't changed a bit...so I don't perceive HaShem would sanction their resettlement of the lands He had allocated to them.

[Sparko]

It was HaShem's (God's) will that they were cast out of the promised land according to the Jewish scriptures.

The other tribes of Israel. Not the Jews (the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin)

[One Bad Pig]

Internationally, everyone seems to think Israel is in the wrong in its treatment of the Palestinians, and especially in their continuing practice of putting Jewish settlements onto Palestinian territory.

Funny how the world didn't see it as "Palestinian" territory until after Israel captured it.

My country (NZ), which is a neutral party on the other side of the world from Israel and has no significant population of either Jews or Arabs, picked up and sponsored the most recent UN resolution condemning Israel for this - after Trump had pressured Egypt into dropping it.

You think NZ came up with that on its own? No, this was arranged by the Obama State Department as a means to stick a knife in the back of Israel. The resolution completely undermines the rationale for a negotiated two-state solution, as there is no longer anything for Israel to negotiate away.

Netanyahu's a nutter. I'd like to see him tried for war crimes by the ICC.

In fairness, you think 99% of the world's population is comprised of nutters.

[seer]

As far as I am aware, HaShem never indicated a return of the Jews to the Promised Land once His final solution was implemented. In His mercy He'd already given them multiple chances. So I would estimate that what we are witnessing is the will of man and the subterfuge of the ungodly powers.

Well I just gave you a source with Scriptures saying just the opposite, that God will bring the Jews back to the land.

From where I sit, the Jews in general haven't changed a bit...so I don't perceive HaShem would sanction their resettlement of the lands He had allocated to them.

Yes, they must have deserved the Holocaust...

[elam]

The other tribes of Israel. Not the Jews (the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin)

(?)

HaShem (God) warned the Jews that if they were not faithful in obeying His laws and commandments, He would banish them from their land to wander the nations plus a lot of other ills.:See Deuteronomy 28.


Of the two kingdoms: Judah & Benjamin were the two tribes that made up the surviving Jewish nation of Judah. Judah attracted the attention of the Babylonians & Persians & is the subject of the exile prophecies.

The Other Kingdom, Israel,disappeared from history after the Assyrian conquest of 721 BCE. Thus we have the legend of the "ten lost tribes".

[Sparko]

(?)

HaShem (God) warned the Jews that if they were not faithful in obeying His laws and commandments, He would banish them from their land to wander the nations plus a lot of other ills.:See Deuteronomy 28.


Of the two kingdoms: Judah & Benjamin were the two tribes that made up the surviving Jewish nation of Judah. Judah attracted the attention of the Babylonians & Persians & is the subject of the exile prophecies.

The Other Kingdom, Israel,disappeared from history after the Assyrian conquest of 721 BCE. Thus we have the legend of the "ten lost tribes".

ah. never mind. I guess I am remember things wrong.

[elam]

Funny how the world didn't see it as "Palestinian" territory until after Israel captured it.

The League of Nations in 1922 proposed the establishment of a Palestinian State administered by the Arabs with Jews resident (but subject to the Arabs). From 1939-1945 the British administrators "White paper" proposed much the same thing. Imu, in both cases."Mandated Palestine" was never to be partitioned. Because of terrorist action by the Zionists, the plan was modified in 1947 to allow partition. The boundaries of Israel & Palestine were defined. Jerusalem was planned to be an International (UN) protectorate.

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Forgot to mention that after the 1948 civil war the Israeli's expunged the Arabs (both Muslim & Christian) from its lands. Syria, Jordan & Egypt annexed the designated Palestinian lands to keep them out of Israeli hands. Come the 1967 war. Israel won and confiscated the territories. They eventually gave Egypt back the Sinai in exchange for recognition.
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Of interest,,,

Britian appointed administrator over the Palestinian Mandate

Ii]The preamble of the mandate document declared [1922]:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

The British Foreign Secretary, Lord Curzon, together with the Italian and French governments rejected early drafts of the mandate because they had contained a passage which read: "Recognising, moreover, the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and the claim which this gives them to reconstitute it their national home..."[/i]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis..._Jewish_people

[elam]

Well I just gave you a source with Scriptures saying just the opposite, that God will bring the Jews back to the land.

I must have missed it. Save me some time searching and repost it please.

Now your scripture might be valid, it will depend on which exile it is referring to. YHWH gave the Jews multiple chances before his final solution.

Have a think on Deuteronomy 28.where YHWH details his final solution to the Jews intransigence.

YHWH warned the Jews that if they were not faithful in obeying His laws and commandments, He would banish them from their land to wander the nations plus a lot of other ills.

[Spartacus]

elam, could you not use phrases like "jewry" and "final solution"? It's a little creepy.

[seer]

I must have missed it. Save me some time searching and repost it please.

Now your scripture might be valid, it will depend on which exile it is referring to. YHWH gave the Jews multiple chances before his final solution.

Have a think on Deuteronomy 28.where YHWH details his final solution to the Jews intransigence.

YHWH warned the Jews that if they were not faithful in obeying His laws and commandments, He would banish them from their land to wander the nations plus a lot of other ills.

Final solution? Really Elam?

http://www.adishakti.org/_/regatheri...he_messiah.htm

Paris (AFP) - Another 5,000 French Jews emigrated to Israel last year, figures showed Monday, continuing a trend that has seen tens of thousands quit the country after a series of attacks targeting the community.

The Jewish Agency of Israel issued the update as France marked two years since attacks on the Charlie Hebdo magazine offices and on a Jewish supermarket in Paris, where four shoppers were shot dead.

Daniel Benhaim, who heads the Israeli-backed group in France, said that insecurity had been a "catalyst" for many Jews who were already thinking of leaving.

The 5,000 departures in 2016 add to the record 7,900 who left in 2015 and 7,231 in 2014. In total, 40,000 French Jews have emigrated since 2006, according to figures seen by AFP.

"The aliyah (the act of moving to Israel) of French Jews has been significant over the last decade," Benhaim told AFP.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/another-5...162800032.html

Why are all these Jews leaving Elam? Why don't they feel safe in France - France for goodness sake.