The Israeli-Palestine conflict

[seer]

elam, could you not use phrases like "jewry" and "final solution"? It's a little creepy.

I think he is expressing what is in his heart.

[Spartacus]

Final solution? Really Elam?

http://www.adishakti.org/_/regatheri...he_messiah.htm

this seems to me like argument by link. You could at least provide a quote or a list of references.

I scrolled through it a bit and the first direct Scripture references I found were from a book by Tim LaHaye, the Left Behind nutter. I wouldn't trust his interpretations.

[seer]

this seems to me like argument by link. You could at least provide a quote or a list of references.

I scrolled through it a bit and the first direct Scripture references I found were from a book by Tim LaHaye, the Left Behind nutter. I wouldn't trust his interpretations.

There are a number of authors, most Jewish. You have to scroll down a bit.

Or try these:

http://christinprophecy.org/articles...ible-prophecy/

https://bible.org/seriespage/22-retu...ised-land-ezra

https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/j...-in-end-times/

[Spartacus]

There are a number of authors, most Jewish. You have to scroll down a bit.

argument by linkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[seer]

argument by link

Oh stop, Elam asked for the link I posted earlier, I linked three more. The scriptures are there for all to see.

[Spartacus]

Oh stop, Elam asked for the link I posted earlier, I linked three more. The scriptures are there for all to see.

argument by threeeeee linkssssss

[seer]

argument by threeeeee linkssssss

Stop it Spartacus, I'm not making an argument that the land belongs to Israel because of Scripture, Elam brought the God/Scripture thing up and my only point was to provide (To Elam) a different view of the texts. But Scripture has not been the core of my argument or the reason why I support the State of Israel.

[One Bad Pig]

The League of Nations in 1922 proposed the establishment of a Palestinian State administered by the Arabs with Jews resident (but subject to the Arabs). From 1939-1945 the British administrators "White paper" proposed much the same thing. Imu, in both cases."Mandated Palestine" was never to be partitioned. Because of terrorist action by the Zionists, the plan was modified in 1947 to allow partition. The boundaries of Israel & Palestine were defined. Jerusalem was planned to be an International (UN) protectorate.

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Forgot to mention that after the 1948 civil war the Israeli's expunged the Arabs (both Muslim & Christian) from its lands. Syria, Jordan & Egypt annexed the designated Palestinian lands to keep them out of Israeli hands. Come the 1967 war. Israel won and confiscated the territories. They eventually gave Egypt back the Sinai in exchange for recognition.
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Of interest,,,

Britian appointed administrator over the Palestinian Mandate

Ii]The preamble of the mandate document declared [1922]:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

The British Foreign Secretary, Lord Curzon, together with the Italian and French governments rejected early drafts of the mandate because they had contained a passage which read: "Recognising, moreover, the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and the claim which this gives them to reconstitute it their national home..."[/i]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis..._Jewish_people

Um, thanks for all that (not that it seems to be very accurate, especially post-1947), but I was referring to the "West Bank". You could say that (Trans)Jordan is the Palestinian state based on the 1947 Partition, but that's not what anybody means when they refer to the "two state solution".

[elam]

Well I just gave you a source with Scriptures saying just the opposite, that God will bring the Jews back to the land.

As I said it depends on which exile the prophets are talking about.

Could find anywhere where you cite scripture. So I presume you are referring to the link below. That link just lists some books & and gives outlines for them.
http://www.adishakti.org/_/regatheri...he_messiah.htm

A couple of the outlines provids some pointers to scripture = Ezekiel 20:33-38; 22:17-22; 36:22-24; 38-39; Isaiah 11:11-12; and Zephaniah 2:1-2

* Ezekiel is all about the Babylonian exile, not the end times

* Isaiah 11 is construed by Christians to refer to Christ (the Messiah) and the gathering of the gentiles, nations & the remnant Israel & Judah to his self. vs10-12 "in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him...t shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left...He will set up a banner for the nationshttps://www.insight.org/resources/bi...hets/zephaniah

Given the above datings, the prophecy is fulfilled by the Babylonian exile. The exile begins with the conquest of the kingdom of Judah in 598/7 and 587/6 bce. The exile formally ended in 538 bce, when the Persian conqueror of Babylonia, Cyrus the Great, gave the Jews permission to return to Palestine.
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None of the above scriptures support a re-establishment of Israel. The Babylonians only exiled the elite of Israel, most of the Israelites stayed behind. In any case prophecies like Isaiah have the nations, the gentiles, israel & judah amalgamated...

[seer]

As I said it depends on which exile the prophets are talking about.

Could find anywhere where you cite scripture. So I presume you are referring to the link below. That link just lists some books & and gives outlines for them.
http://www.adishakti.org/_/regatheri...he_messiah.htm

A couple of the outlines provids some pointers to scripture = Ezekiel 20:33-38; 22:17-22; 36:22-24; 38-39; Isaiah 11:11-12; and Zephaniah 2:1-2

* Ezekiel is all about the Babylonian exile, not the end times

* Isaiah 11 is construed by Christians to refer to Christ (the Messiah) and the gathering of the gentiles, nations & the remnant Israel & Judah to his self. vs10-12 "in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him...t shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left...He will set up a banner for the nationshttps://www.insight.org/resources/bi...hets/zephaniah

Given the above datings, the prophecy is fulfilled by the Babylonian exile. The exile begins with the conquest of the kingdom of Judah in 598/7 and 587/6 bce. The exile formally ended in 538 bce, when the Persian conqueror of Babylonia, Cyrus the Great, gave the Jews permission to return to Palestine.
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None of the above scriptures support a re-establishment of Israel. The Babylonians only exiled the elite of Israel, most of the Israelites stayed behind. In any case prophecies like Isaiah have the nations, the gentiles, israel & judah amalgamated...

Again, Elam I know Jews who would disagree with your understanding of scripture, many in my first link. But that has not been my argument from the get go.

[Jedidiah]

OK, so after centuries of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust you don't believe that the Jewish peoples deserve, need or should have a defensible homeland? Especially with anti-Semitism on the rise again in Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...in-europe-how/

This is a question of survival for the Jewish peoples, it is not a question of survival for the Arabs....

And as it has often been said. "if the 'Palestinians' laid down their weapons there would be an end to the war. I the Israelis laid down their weapons there would be an end to Israel."

[seer]

And as it has often been said. "if the 'Palestinians' laid down their weapons there would be an end to the war. I the Israelis laid down their weapons there would be an end to Israel."

Exactly, just look at what happen when they gave back Gaza.

[elam]

Albert Einstein's Warning

In an earlier post I related that my Jewish friends say you can be either a Zionist or a Jew but you can't be both! Someone who demonstrates a total ignorance of Israeli history and the diversity within Zionism suggested my friends are fools!

Whilst I was researching something unrelated I came across a Letter That Albert Einstein Sent to the New York Times Warning Of Zionist Facism In Israel

I would have liked to have posted the letter in full but, imu, such would breach the rules of this forum, so I'll just post the most startling paragraphs of Einsteins revelation...and leave you to click on the link given above to read the entire letter...

"Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine...

It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future...

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

...During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute...

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal...."

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On the basis of Einsteins Letter I assume my "foolish" Jewish friends, some of whom immigrated from Israel to Oz, have a context from experience when the say "you can be a Zionist or a Jew but you can't be both".

[elam]

A particular poster has denigrated my slant on Israeli terrorism. The fellow rejects historical facts, and in his blind prejudice wants to exclusively paint the Palestinians with the terrorist brush. So I thought I'd present a bit of independent evidence of Zionist groups that actively pursued terrorism as a policy...


Zionist Terrorists Became Britian's MI5's Biggest Enemy



To read the article in full, click here.

[Jaecp]

Damn, Elam, I have no idea why anyone would come to the conclusion that you're a crazy anti-Semite.