The Israeli-Palestine conflict

[elam]

This is the most knee slappingly funny garbage I've read in ages. Arabs are firmly entreched in the American camp (at least the ones that matter) and even helped Obama kneecap the russian economy after the ukraine debacle. Conversely Israel and Russia are on friendly relations and Russia has absolutely no reason whatsoever to give a crap about Palestine in the first place, let alone start world war 3 over it.

Guess you aren't upto date on current events. Of course Russia doesn't give a hoot about Israel. It is only courting Israel to up it to the Americans and to subvert the US sanctions. But, in the same breathe Russia has been making alliances with the Arab world. That could be a two sided sword. Turkey a few months ago was pro American but since the coup, which they assume was sponsored by America, they are now pro-Russia (they use to have a balancing act between the Russia and the USA). It is all getting very complicated, and America has been effectively frozen out of the middle east - at least diplomatically.

[elam]

There has never been a Palestinian State in history.

After the Jews were conquered and exiled. The Romans established the Palestinian state.

Guess you didn't do History at school...

[Spartacus]

And you are a Jew hater.

Do you like it when people call you a racist based on standards or criteria that you neither accept nor fully understand?

No?

Then maybe don't do it to other people. Even if they're weird. Or Catholic. Ah, but I repeat myself.

[John Reece]

On another thread John Reece has accused me of being anti-semitic.

I apologize, elam.

I do not know you, so I have no basis for judging whether or not you are "anti-semitic".

I take your word for it that you definitely are not, and that I was quite wrong for accusing you of being such.

I hope you will forgive me.

I wrongly confused your vigorous opposition to the modern state of Israel with anti-semitism.

I am a fan and supporter of Netanyahu and Israel for many reasons; however, I am too old and feeble to argue about the subject of this your thread, so I can only say that I am sorry that I misjudged you and leave it at that.

[elam]

I apologize, elam.

I do not know you, so I have no basis for judging whether or not you are "anti-semitic".

I take your word for it that you definitely are not, and that I was quite wrong for accusing you of being such.

I hope you will forgive me.

I wrongly confused your vigorous opposition to the modern state of Israel with anti-semitism.

I am a fan and supporter of Netanyahu and Israel for many reasons; however, I am too old and feeble to argue about the subject of this your thread, so I can only say that I am sorry that I misjudged you and leave it at that.

No sweat.

I'm not against modern Israel per se. I simply side with many Israelis & Jews of the diaspora who are critical of the Knesset's policies concerning the treatment of the Palestinians.

I'm not even against Zionism per se. I would support the benevolence of Hovevei Zion but I am dead set against Revisionist Zionism as founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky and which gave rise to terrorist groups such as the Irgun. (The Irgun were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war, which explains a lot of things...).

[John Reece]

No sweat.

I'm not against modern Israel per se. I simply side with many Israelis & Jews of the diaspora who are critical of the Knesset's policies concerning the treatment of the Palestinians.

I'm not even against Zionism per se. I would support the benevolence of Hovevei Zion but I am dead set against Revisionist Zionism as founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky and which gave rise to terrorist groups such as the Irgun. (The Irgun were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war, which explains a lot of things...).

Thanks, elam.

[seer]

Until 1947, there hadn't been a united Jewish State in existence for 2,878 years - since the rebellion against Rehoboam in 931/932 BCE.

So what is your point? At least there was an historic Jewish State, there has never been a Palestinian State. What should we do with the Jews, what is your solution to the Jewish question Elam?

[seer]

Why? No other religion has a defensible homeland of their own!

OK, so after centuries of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust you don't believe that the Jewish peoples deserve, need or should have a defensible homeland? Especially with anti-Semitism on the rise again in Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...in-europe-how/

This is a question of survival for the Jewish peoples, it is not a question of survival for the Arabs....

[seer]

After the Jews were conquered and exiled. The Romans established the Palestinian state.

Guess you didn't do History at school...

No idiot, I said a Palestinian state with self-rule. That has never happened.

[Leonhard]

No idiot,

Seriously seer.

[seer]

Seriously seer.

Yeah well, I'm just tired of people attacking the Jews, haven't they as a people been through enough?

[elam]

1948 Arab–Israeli War, Six Day War, Yom Kippur War.

I requested documentation supportive of your opinion. You just proved you can't support your accusation and are just blowing smoke out of your nether regions.

Guess you aren't aware that the 6 day war & Yom Kippur war had nothing to with the Palestinians per se. Israel fought a coalition of states - Egypt, Syria & Jordan in the 1967 six day war; Egypt & Syria in the 1973 Yom Kippur war - they were attempting to reclaim the territories they had lost in 1967. Egyptian President Anwar Sadat wanted to reopen the Suez Canal. Neither specifically planned to destroy Israel - they didn't have the capability,

I just did a quick check. In the 1948 uprising it was the Zionists who had a policy of ethic cleansing.planned by Zionist movement leaders, mainly David Ben-Gurion and the other ten members of his "consultancy group". 720,000 Palestinian Arabs out of the 900,000 who lived in the territories that became Israel fled or were expelled from their homes.

No, that's mostly just spin. Palestinians who wanted to destroy Israel fled to let the arab coalition have free reign to ethnically cleanse the Israelis.

You are blowing more smoke.

The problem with your speculation is for 19 years after the 1948 civil war the Arab world went dorment in respect of Israel...it is called "the lost years" in some cycles...

[elam]

So what is your point? At least there was an historic Jewish State, there has never been a Palestinian State. What should we do with the Jews, what is your solution to the Jewish question Elam?

HaShem's will (God's will), which I understand to be the diaspora. Possibly a reason why over 58% of current worldwide Jewry have never had an inclination to immigrate to Israel.

As I noted before: after the Romans defeated the Israelites and exiled the surviving Jews they established the state/province of Palestine. So there has been a Palestinian state since the 2nd century CE (albeit, the region has had numerous name changes as conquerors imposed their administration.)

[elam]

OK, so after centuries of pogroms in Europe and the Holocaust you don't believe that the Jewish peoples deserve, need or should have a defensible homeland? Especially with anti-Semitism on the rise again in Europe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...in-europe-how/

If it HaShem's will (God's will) then nothing we can do about it. However, those effected could flee to a more tolerant country.

The establishment of a Jewish state, especially one that demonstrates belligerence, just makes it a "sitting duck" target for anti-semitism,

We need to ask ourselves: Why is anti-semiticism on the increase in Europe? The rise of neo-Nazism might be a contributor. The Israeli treatment of the Palestinian issue is undoubtedly another = the perception of Jews applying Nazi policy.against another ethnic group.

I presume you are aware that prior to 1942 the Nazi "resolution of the Jewish problem" was to ship all the Jews to Madagascar. The Madagascar Plan aimed for "natural selection" = genocide for the majority, the potential for survival for some. To some this is comparable to Israel's Palesintian solution.

This is a question of survival for the Jewish peoples, it is not a question of survival for the Arabs....

Rubbish! Jews in Australia live happily along side everyone else. I presume likewise in the USA, Canada, NZ and many other non-European countries. Russia is currently enticing Jews back to Russia.

Europe & the Middle East aren't the be all of the world. Apart from Jews, Asians are also treated with disdain in the region...

[seer]

HaShem's will (God's will), which I understand to be the diaspora. Possibly a reason why over 58% of current worldwide Jewry have never had an inclination to immigrate to Israel.

And with anti-Semitism rising world wide perhaps those 58% will decide to immigrate.

As I noted before: after the Romans defeated the Israelites and exiled the surviving Jews they established the state/province of Palestine. So there has been a Palestinian state since the 2nd century CE (albeit, the region has had numerous name changes as conquerors imposed their administration.)

Like I said, there was never a Palestinian state ruled by the native Palestinians (they never had self-rule as I made clear). And I don't see why the Arabs have more of a right to the land than the Jews? Because the Jews were forced from their homeland back in the day?