Demons! Demons everywhere!

[AtheistArchon]

- MAN, what is it with conservatives and demons these days??

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories...61791&ran=9025

State senator denies blaming mental illness on sin and demons

By LOUIS HANSEN, The Virginian-Pilot
© November 1, 2003

NORFOLK — Several mental health advocates say state Sen. D. Nick Rerras has twice during the past four years expressed extreme and insensitive positions about the origins of mental illness, including the belief that psychological disorders are caused by spiritual demons.

Rerras said the two conversations, which occurred in 2000 and this year, were misunderstood. He denies blaming mental illness on sin and demonic possession.

The mental health advocates have raised the issue during the final days of a state Senate campaign. The General Assembly likely will engage in several critical debates about Virginia’s health care for the mentally ill over the next several years.

Rerras, a conservative Christian, faces Democrat Andy Protogyrou in the Nov. 4 election for the 6th District, which includes part of Norfolk, Mathews County and the Eastern Shore.

Protogyrou recently attended a meeting of the Norfolk chapter of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill, where members shared their concerns about Rerras.

Advocates have made their concerns public in recent weeks. They say they tried to work with Rerras during his first term as senator but feel he will never be their advocate.

Kathy Weaver, president of the Norfolk chapter, said the remarks reinforced the stigma against the mentally ill. “It’s a lack of sensitivity,” she said. “These people are generally forgotten.”

Advocates also say the senator’s remarks — on two separate occasions, three years apart — displayed an ignorance of mental health issues at a vital junction in Virginia’s care for the mentally ill.

The state mental health care system is in the midst of a slow movement away from institutionalization to community-based care. The commonwealth spent more than $800 million last year to care for mentally ill Virginians, according to the latest available state figures.

Last month, an independent task force delivered a several-hundred-page report to Gov. Mark R. Warner, outlining how Virginia must change its mental health system to comply with a U.S. Supreme Court ruling endorsing community health care for the mentally ill.

The report includes 43 recommendations for immediate action by the General Assembly, ranging from increased funding and training to rewriting state law concerning the mentally ill. Several bills likely would be considered by the 15-member Senate Courts of Justice Committee, on which Rerras sits.

Rerras says he supports full funding for mental health care. His legislative record shows no pattern of opposition to mental health care reform.

He insists that mental illness is a valid disease. “I genuinely care about people with mental illness,” he said.

The first conversation occurred at a January 2000 breakfast banquet for community service boards from across the state, according to Rerras and several other people present. About 300 community service board workers, volunteers and legislators attended the event in Richmond. Rerras and at least one other legislator sat at a table with Norfolk social workers.

Bob Armstrong, a member of the Norfolk Community Services Board, was sitting near Rerras when the conversation turned to mental illness. Armstrong, who has a daughter with mental illness, was chairman of the Norfolk chapter of the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill for about 15 years before recently stepping down.

During the discussion, Rerras said he believed mental illness was caused by demons, according to Armstrong and another person who heard the conversation. Neither Armstrong nor the other participant are associated with the Protogyrou campaign.

Rerras also said he believed that God may be punishing families by giving children mental illnesses, according to the other person who heard the conversation. Armstrong and the second witness said the people who heard it were shocked. “We hadn’t heard that kind of stuff in 30, 40, 50 years,” Armstrong said.

Rerras recalls the conversation differently. As he remembers it, he did not say all mental illness is caused by demons. He said he asked the group whether demonization was a possible explanation for illnesses such as multiple personality disorders.

Armstrong said Rerras called him within the past two weeks and acknowledged that he made the comments and apologized. In interviews this week, Rerras declined to answer several questions about whether he believes mental illness has spiritual causes. “Mental illness is a valid illness,” he said. Most problems are physiological, he said, but “we’re more than flesh and blood.”

Within the past year, another mental health advocate questioned Rerras about his stance on mental illness. Honey Biberman, a Norfolk resident who is active in the local NAMI chapter, said she approached Rerras in June at a club wrestling event at Granby High School.

Biberman asked Rerras whether he still believed that mental illness was caused by spirits. According to Biberman, the senator restated his belief that mental illness had spiritual origins.

Rerras said he did not remember the exact details of the conversation but said he again mentioned demonization as a possible component of mental illness.

Some Christians believe that demonization plays a role in certain mental illnesses, Rerras said. Rerras would not say what he believes.

William L. Hathaway, director of the psychology department at Regent University in Virginia Beach, said the idea of demonization — that mental illness is caused by demons — is an extreme position even for conservative Christians.

Hathaway said the philosophy is found in nearly all religions. For example, there are Christian stories about fallen angels and demons that influence mortals’ lives.

Therapists sometimes help patients restore their spiritual or religious health when appropriate, said Hathaway, a scholar in the psychology of religion. But psychological problems are rooted in biological and social causes, he said. To attribute serious psychological disorders to demons, he said, “does a great injustice to the mentally ill.”

Val Marsh, executive director of the NAMI Virginia chapter, said such misconceptions particularly are damaging coming from an elected leader. “It perpetuates misinformation and stigma,” she said. “It’s kind of like saying the sun revolves around the Earth.”

Rerras, who works in business development for a local technology firm, said he supports full funding of the Community Service Boards. He said he has toured facilities in Norfolk and Virginia Beach and has met with several mental health care professionals. The issue of his views has not been raised in several subsequent meetings, he said.

Rerras has considered several dozen bills concerning mental health during his four years as a state senator, according to a review of legislative records. He voted with the majority on almost all of the mental health bills.

In 2002, for example, he voted for a comprehensive restructuring of the mental health care system that would allow the state to gradually close some institutions. Rerras also sponsored a bill that year that clarified the services provided by Community Service Boards.

Sen. Kenneth W. Stolle, R-Virginia Beach, said he heard about the comments and spoke to Rerras shortly after they occurred. He said he believes that Rerras did not intend to offend the group.

Rerras has been supportive of issues concerning the mentally ill, Stolle said. “His voting record speaks for itself.”

Marsh, however, said Virginia consistently ranks among the worst states in the country when it comes to caring for the mentally ill. Recent budget cuts have made the problems worse. “We’re already a starved system,” she said.

Rerras’ comments have continued to upset local advocates of the mentally ill. “I’m just disappointed,” Armstrong said. He said he had hoped to educate Rerras about mental illness. “I didn’t want an apology.”

- Nice. We continue to elect people who believe in magical nasties... and we wonder why Gen. "Somalia Demon" Boykin was nominated for a high-level anti-Islam... oops, I mean anti-terrorism... post in the Bush admin.

- Watch out, Nick! I'll unleash my inner demon on you... rar! He obeys me because I learned how to control him by watching the Harry Potter movies. Last week, my demon commanded me to buy a Secret Spells Barbie too, just to tick off the religious reich.

- Weep, all children of rationalism. Weep for your country, for it is run largely by 1350's superstitions. If CNN reported Senators rolling bones to see the future, I wouldn't believe it except for the fact that it's "anti-Christian" unless you phrase it as "prophecy", not voodoo.

[Da Lone-Warrior]

It is true that many mental illnesses have symptoms identical to that of demon-possession as described in the Bible.

The point is a belief that there is both a spiritual and material dimension to our existence and that what we observe behaviorally can be due to a spiritual affliction.

This is not a denial of the importance of rational thought, just a different way to view the world.

Every culture besides the enlightenment has affirmed there being a spiritual dimension. Many have believed the spiritual dimension is more important. Affirming its existence, doesn't imply that it is all important and we are without effects in dealing with it.

I had friends who confronted situations where mentally-ill types evinced posssessed like symptoms and their problems were dealt with by social workers with no reference whatsoever to the spiritual dimension of the problem.

The interpretation. If both dimensions exist they are intertwined and we can deal with the spiritual one without directly confronting it...

dlw

[markporter]

The interpretation. If both dimensions exist they are intertwined and we can deal with the spiritual one without directly confronting it...

methinks I would disagree there, I think that there are cases where there is a spiritual reality which needs to be confronted directly, yes there are going to be many many cases that exhibit signs resembling some of those encountered in demon posession which can be dealt with naturally. But I believe that in a genuine case of posession this would not necessarily be enough.

[Da Lone-Warrior]

markporter:

methinks I would disagree there, I think that there are cases where there is a spiritual reality which needs to be confronted directly, yes there are going to be many many cases that exhibit signs resembling some of those encountered in demon posession which can be dealt with naturally. But I believe that in a genuine case of posession this would not necessarily be enough.

For all cases, you should do both... Just as you should pray for those who are sick, but also see that they see a doc and take their medications.

Hence, the importance of how the two are intertwined.
dlw

[mickiel]

The mind thinking it is immune to deception, is decevied already. There are more demons in christianity than any other area on earth. The christian influence is the strongest most influencial hot bed of demon possesion i have ever studied. The deception must be given in a manner that none is aware of it, or it is not deception. The level of demonic intervention towards the misunderstanding in christianity has been performed at magical unbelievable lengths. The talent of demons is astounding. The way they distort truth, and how that distortion is accepted, is truly a work of evil art. As it is being unfolded to me, i believe there is no way God cannot be involved, its just too good of a job of power being done.


Its like a whole heard of sheep being led by a pied piper of deception, who calls himself God. This is Gods way of protecting humanity, preserving them in blindness until the great day of release. He will release his great awesome love for us all. Rom. 11:32.

[Da Lone-Warrior]

Um, yeah...

but then again wouldn't there be more demons where people would be more likely to cause like problems for demon?


Moderators, I think this thread may be better redirected to another forum...

dlw

[mickiel]

Today @ 07:03 PM post located here
Love-Warrior:

Um, yeah...

but then again wouldn't there be more demons where people would be more likely to cause like problems for demon?


Moderators, I think this thread may be better redirected to another forum...

dlw

People do not cause problems for demons, such a notion is backwards. Demons were created to cause problems for humans, they are far more powerful than us. They are doing just what they were created to do. Cause confusion. Wherever you see the most confusion on earth, demons are congregating there. Whatever religons are most confused, demons are grouping together and jumping on it. Look at Islam and christianity. Need i say more.

[Da Lone-Warrior]

mickiel:

People do not cause problems for demons, such a notion is backwards. Demons were created to cause problems for humans, they are far more powerful than us. They are doing just what they were created to do. Cause confusion. Wherever you see the most confusion on earth, demons are congregating there. Whatever religons are most confused, demons are grouping together and jumping on it. Look at Islam and christianity. Need i say more.

Au contraire...

They are not so much powerful than us...

Thanks to the death of Jesus on the cross, their power over us is severely attenuated, so much that their existence can in many circumstances be disregarded.

Our problems stem far more from ourselves...

dlw

[Bill the Cat]

I thought my mother in law was coming over and you guys saw her first...

[AtheistArchon]

- Bill, your response is thus far the most sane.

[markporter]

AtheistArchon:

- Bill, your response is thus far the most sane.

only if you don't believe in the existence of demons.

[AtheistArchon]

only if you don't believe in the existence of demons.

- Well yes, that's what I was implying. Belief in the existence of demons is a sign of psychosis... it's not healthy. We lock up people who chase fairies around their yards, but we ELECT people who attribute illness (mental or otherwise) to invisible imps of an invisible satan created by an invisible god.

- So in other words, belief that purple sock-eaters live under one's bed is only insane... if you aren't a believer in purple sock-eaters.

[Da Lone-Warrior]

AtheistArchon:

- Well yes, that's what I was implying. Belief in the existence of demons is a sign of psychosis... it's not healthy. We lock up people who chase fairies around their yards, but we ELECT people who attribute illness (mental or otherwise) to invisible imps of an invisible satan created by an invisible god.

- So in other words, belief that purple sock-eaters live under one's bed is only insane... if you aren't a believer in purple sock-eaters.

I believe in bacteria, viruses, even though I cannot see them.

the point is that believing in the existence of a spiritual dimension to reality is what is really at stake here.

A belief in that has rather little to do with sanity...

dlw

[The Laughing Man]

MAN, what is it with Archie constantly seeing all Christian conservatives constantly seeing demons because of a couple of extreme examples these days??

[Da Lone-Warrior]

What good do the ad-homs do...

Arch,
I treat demons the way I treat viruses. I acknowledge their existence but don't let it affect me too much.

I think that people tend to get carried away when spiritual stuff is brought up and start saying stuff like demons are more powerful than us or what-not.

dlw