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Thread: Richard Dawkins and Peter Singer

  1. #31
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    "Christian philosopher" is an oxymoron.
    Right, he has a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Yale.
    "We can understand hell in its aspect of privation. All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever.” C.S. Lewis

  2. #32
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Right, he has a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Yale.
    Then permit me to be a little more precise: Christian Philosophy is not a subject and Alvin Plantinga only pretends to do philosophy.

    “Plantinga states very clearly that the best reason to believe in (his) god is not a rational argument at all, but the infamous sensus divinitatis of Calvinistic memory, i.e. the idea that people experience god directly as a result of “an inborn inclination to form beliefs about God.””
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  3. #33
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by element771 View Post
    Most of the population (Christian, atheists, etc) simply are not informed and have limited critical thinking skills.
    True enough.

    I challenge you to pick your favorite or the most "impactful" argument from the God Delusion and I am willing to bet that I can rip it to pieces.
    I will need to reread the book and take some notes about the arguments as its been several months since I read the book and I didn't take notes the first time through. While I am sure you feel you could 'rip it to pieces' I am extremely skeptical of your ability to do so in a way that I would find convincing. I have a degree in philosophy and experience in apologetics and have spent 15 years reading online arguments about religion, so and am very very very well aware of the standard pitfalls surrounding the various arguments for and against religion and what people do and don't argue, and I felt the book was very well-argued when I read it, and thus doubt you could make any argument against it that would be new to me and that I would find convincing. I am sure you could rip it to pieces in your imagination though.

  4. #34
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I have a degree in philosophy and experience in apologetics and have spent 15 years reading online arguments about religion
    And he got taken in by The God Delusion.

  5. Amen element771, Cerebrum123, Raphael, MaxVel amen'd this post.
  6. #35
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    And he got taken in by The God Delusion.
    Not to mention his patent inability to even remotely accurately describe orthodox Christian beliefs. How much one has read is immaterial if much of what one has read is garbage and/or one fails to understand what one has read.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  7. #36
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    you're just a regular moron.
    If I said you have the wit of an imbecile I would unfortunately be insulting imbeciles.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  8. #37
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firstfloor View Post
    If I said you have the wit of an imbecile I would unfortunately be insulting imbeciles.
    Troll harder.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  9. Amen Adrift, Cerebrum123, MaxVel amen'd this post.
  10. #38
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I have a degree in philosophy and experience in apologetics and have spent 15 years reading online arguments about religion,
    What type of degree?

    I had a bachelor's degree in biochemistry. When I went to graduate school, I realized that I knew next to nothing about biochemistry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    I am sure you could rip it to pieces in your imagination though.
    Then accept the challenge.

    Are you going to use the one about complexity coming from simplicity? the ultimate jumbo jet?

    This isn't a worldview thing...this is a bad argument thing. It is not like the only people ripping on TGD's arguments are theists.

    Furthermore, I am also quick to point out bad arguments for theism or I can list atheistic arguments that give me pause. Just so you know that I am being objective.
    Last edited by element771; 01-11-2017 at 09:17 PM.

  11. #39
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Not to mention his patent inability to even remotely accurately describe orthodox Christian beliefs.
    It amuses me how often you nutters tell each other this and the absurd grounds you use for doing so.

    Me: "You know that in some parts of the world most Christians are fine with abortion right? And that not everyone shares the US evangelical obsession with it?"
    Various nutters on this forum: "He has no idea what orthodox Christian beliefs are!!!!!!!!!!!!"


    I literally spent years studying the differences between different denominations and what different Christian groups throughout history believed and studying how and why those teachings changed over time and what the key arguments were in each period. And whenever I mention on this forum that there have ever existed any Christians who believed anything different from whatever a Christian poster on this forum happened to learn at their local church, they start screaming that I have no idea about Christian beliefs. It's pretty pathetic really.

    Although such behavior is somewhat understandable given that this forum does try pretty hard to be a "safe space" for people with a very particular viewpoint on Christianity - any new Christian posters with the 'wrong' views are quickly banned from the Christian-only sections of the site and have their faith designation forcibly changed to not say "Christian" - so the site has developed into quite a self-reinforcing bubble that extols a very particular view of what Christian beliefs should be and does not tolerate any dissent from that kindly. So I guess I am transgressing that boundary whenever I comment that other Christians in history or the present have had other views or other interpretations, and thus people get upset and I am accused of "not knowing" the "orthodox" (i.e. TWeb-approved) interpretation/view. Although I regularly find it bizarre that my not agreeing with 'orthodoxy' is repeatedly conflated by posters with the idea of my not knowing its teachings. And thus there's this really strange meme that circulates around the nutters here claiming that I don't know or misdescribe orthodox teachings.

  12. #40
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    any new Christian posters with the 'wrong' views are quickly banned from the Christian-only sections of the site and have their faith designation forcibly changed to not say "Christian"
    I don't know about this one.

    I am a Christian.

    I am also a physicalist (no souls)

    I am also an annihilationist (no hell).

    I am an orthodox preterist (no rapture).

    I am politically liberal.

    I think humans evolved from lower life forms.

    The earth is 4.6 billion year old with the universe being 13-15 billion years old.

    I am pretty much the antithesis of the stereotypical evangelical Christian yet I have never been challenged once.

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