Mansplaining?Really?

[Zymologist]

I don't grant this assumption.
I'd wager just as many men feel marginalized in the workplace as do women.

This may not be all that applicable to this thread, but I have felt "marginalized" in virtually every scenario I've ever been in, for my entire life. It was only when I began to recognize that this was (at least mostly) self-caused that I began to truly overcome it. Now, I can actually get comfortable in contexts that I wouldn't have been able to only a few years ago. The change had nothing to do with the way people treated me--most of the time, their treatment was fine, and when it wasn't I could have just gotten over it--but had everything to do with my acknowledging my own problems in interaction and taking steps to address them.

FWIW

[Christianbookworm]

Could you males please respond to me? Y'all keep ignoring me!!!!

[rogue06]

Could you males please respond to me? Y'all keep ignoring me!!!!

Careful of what you ask for CBW. [*barely resists urge to make series of patronizing jokes*].

While nearly everyone would agree that it is normally better to retain at least a vestige of politeness in conversations, it shouldn't be regarded as sexist when someone interrupts or gives a detailed answer. If wimmenfolk want to be regarded as equals, which I believe you are, then it would help if y'all quit whining and wanting special considerations. There are far tougher things to face in life than people who are aggressive conversationalists or condescending.

[elam]

Shouldn't people in general be polite and follow the rules of conversation(e.g. taking turns, not interrupting, being a good listener)?

In the real world that only happens in a Catholic confessional.

Outsiders (and very shy people) are usually allocated a corner of a room to watch & listen. But insiders are as rude as hell to each other...

If a person, male or female, wants to "get into" a conversation they'll find a way to interrupt it! Take the scenario of a typical BBQ:

P1 to P2. Did you see x on TV last night P2?
P3 to P1. I missed it was it any good?
P2 to P3. I couldn't get into it!
P4 to P3. I thought it was really good!
P3 to (?) Why is that?
P1 to P3. The action was brilliant...

Notice how P3 interloped and then dominated the conversation by asking questions (it makes people feel good when they can give answers). P4 tried to get in but P3 intercepted with an an unaddressed question thus excluding P2 & P4. Neither would want to appear conceited by giving an answer. Which allows P1 to regain control of the conversation by answering P3s first question which was addressed to him. Because P3 initially deferred to P1, they form a conversational pair. P2 & P4 then have to compete for inclusion in the conversation. There is a word for this type of dialogue but it escapes me at the moment...

[Meh Gerbil]

Maybe they are more tomboyish? They might have grown up with several brothers and learned their communication skills from them? Are you boys going to keep ignoring me?

Thank you.

Here we have a woman who has proposed two things:
1: Some women believe the ability to communicate effectively with men diminishes their femininity.
2: An effective woman has learned how to communicate with men, perhaps by being raised with men.

Both of these points hint at a deficiency on the part of the woman.
In the case of #1 she believes something that is simply not true.
In the case of #2 she received an education (had to learn something) to communicate with men.

^------ In both of these cases the woman has something to learn, a way to improve and grow stronger. She is no longer dependent upon the competition to roll over for her because she has thrown out the lie that is #1 and she has learned vital communication skills #2. This is a better equipped person.

So, who would you rather hire?
A snowflake that insists that all the men in the company undergo training in how to accommodate the snowflake in the room OR
would you rather hire the intelligent capable woman who knows how to get things done without polluting the entire company with P.C nonsense?

[Meh Gerbil]

Could you males please respond to me? Y'all keep ignoring me!!!!

I'd like an ice tea, extra lemon.
Guys, she's gonna do a coffee run - want anything?

[Christianbookworm]

I'd like an ice tea, extra lemon.
Guys, she's gonna do a coffee run - want anything?

Or stereotypes are stupid. And men and women should not engage in girl vs boy squabbles. Because some men and women just have more agressive personality traits. I often accidentally monopolize a sunday school group if no one else bothers to answer any questions. And there is the pressure to avoid being mistaken for a canid. Why do people use dogs to insult humans? Dogs can be wonderful loyal animals! So, why do we insult people by calling them canines???

[elam]

In general the cure isn't that bad. Treat the woman in front of you as just as smart as yourself, give her a chance at talking before opening your own mouth. I don't see what's so difficult about it.

In my experience, women, whether young or old, on a first meeting, expect the man to initiate conversation. When I was very much younger I'd do a pantomime of extracting a book from my pocket and flicking through it. I'd then say "This is my book of conversations. What would you like to talk about?" That would always get a giggle, break the ice, and get us talking.

I think it was Carnegie who advocated that people like to talk about themselves and their opinions. So a good conversationalists reserves their opinions, says nothing but continually asks questions.

In a two way conversation opinions have to be exchanged, that's when things become interesting...



I don't mind associating with people I disagree with. I'll speak cordially to you if you return the favor, that's about it.[/QUOTE]

[Christianbookworm]

Stereotypes are stupid. People are people and you can't shoehorn everyone into two stereotypical categories. Having a y chromosome won't mean you act exactly the same as the other y-chromosome carriers. Likewise if one does not have that y chromosome. Wouldn't it be boring of all men acted exactly the same and all women acted exactly the same. Actually, that would be creepy.

[elam]

Do you not understand the inherent sexism one must accept to adopt a term like 'mansplaining'?

Can a woman not interrupt a man and insist he stop explaining something she already understands?
Can a woman not get attention at a meeting and hold the floor?
Can a woman not lead a conversation without everyone else intentionally stepping aside?
What is different about a woman that she cannot compete in a conversation like a man?

So I'm supposed to sit in a meeting where a heated discussion about some topic of import is occurring and at some point hold up my hand and ask everyone to be quiet so we can give the wilting flower in the back of the room a moment to make her case heard?

All the women I know have no problem making their voices heard.
Maybe some of these people need to hang out with a better class of woman.

I once worked with an NZ guy that could end most debates and make himself the centre of attention. He would just ask some really weird question.

An event I've never forgotten is where there were 12 people, men & women with competing and conflicting agendas, trying to resolve a major corporate problem. The debate was getting heated and this fellow stood up and asked "Why don't hardware stores sell holes?" and sat down again.

Everyone shut up and just looked at him. He stood up again and said "If you go to a hardware store to buy a hole they try to sell you a drill. People who have a need for a hole, don't have a need for a drill, they have a need for a hole!" he sat down again.

Intrigued, the CEO asked "What is your point?"

The NZ fellow stood up and said "We have spent hours discussing solutions to various department issues but nobody as yet has identified what our corporate objective is and how to get there".

I honestly don't think a woman could get away with something like that...it takes a huge amount of self depreciation...

[Leonhard]

I wonder if communication styles differ depending on the country? Denmark and the USA do share an innocent/guilt viewpoint, but they are still different countries. Even here in the states, there are regional differences in how people communicate.

I apologize for not responding. It kinda makes the discussion look ironic.

It was waaay past midnight when I made the last post. And I was tucking in for the night rather falling prey to someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet syndrome. As for issues of communication on these matters its my experience, from the women I know, that these issues are roughly the same both in Denmark and in the US. I'm less certain about the US though, as I know a lot more women in Denmark.

[JonathanL]

Could you males please respond to me? Y'all keep ignoring me!!!!

I don't feel like mansplaining everything to you.

[Trout]

Having facilitated a business meeting every Wednesday for seventeen years I have found it quite the opposite. The wimmen folk have zero trouble holding the floor/getting their point across. This whole mansplaning idea is yet another attempt at feminizing the American male.

[JonathanL]

Having facilitated a business meeting every Wednesday for seventeen years I have found it quite the opposite. The wimmen folk have zero trouble holding the floor/getting their point across. This whole mansplaning idea is yet another attempt at feminizing the American male.

TRIGGER WARNING!
TRIGGER WARNING!
TOXIC MASCULINITY DETECTED!
PLEASE VACATE THE PREMISES AND RELOCATE TO A SAFE SPACE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!

[Darth Ovious]

There is when the problem is asymmetric. While women can be condescending, and I've certainly experienced my share of that, there's more going the other way.

I don't think we have be politically correct and pretend both sides have it equally tough.

I disagree with this. Perhaps it may be different in Denmark where you're from but in the UK I've seen women being clearly condescending to men. Right to the point to not only tell them what to do but how to exactly do it. Have you ever had a woman start an argument with you because you didn't put the tin back in the exact correct space in the cupboard? Even though you did put it back in the cupboard, just not in the EXACT space where it's supposed to go. I would call that pretty condescending if you ask me.