Ice Ages and a Young Earth

[rogue06]

The Ice Age. The term usually refers to the most recent global cold period that peaked roughly 20,000 years ago in which sheets of ice thousands of feet thick covered much of Asia, Europe and North America (and likewise the land masses of the Southern Hemisphere to a lesser extent), although technically it appears there were at least four of these events in Earth’s history.

This isn’t going to be about the various Ice Ages, or the mechanisms that may have brought them about, but rather to ask why do Young Earth Creationists (YECs) accept that even one took place. Clearly there is not a scintilla of supporting evidence to be found in the Bible that speaks of the Earth enduring an Ice Age (much less several). The best I have been able to find is this from AnswersinGenesis (AiG) and a few other YEC websites:

Job 38:29–30

“From whose womb comes the ice? And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth? The waters harden like stone, and the surface of the deep is frozen.”

That seems to be an incredible stretch to imagine this describes an event where large portions of continents were buried under a mile of ice whether for approximately 100,000 years (or a much shorter period as AiG insists). It seems to more accurately describe the surface of water turning to ice – a fairly common phenomenon in many parts of the world during the Winter. Even AiG acknowledges that “Job could have observed frost and lake ice during winter in Palestine.”

In fact, the same article (HERE) offers up a possible explanation for the “reason the Ice Age is not directly discussed in the Bible” is that the “Scandinavian ice sheet and mountain ice caps were farther north than the region where the Bible was written.”

Attachment 71005

As can be seen on this map, where the Ice Age glaciers are marked in black, that they reached down into modern Iran/Afghanistan meaning they can hardly be dismissed as merely being some “Scandinavian ice sheet” if they were indeed around in Biblical times as YECs maintain.

Creationwiki proposes another verse in Job as speaking about the Ice Age:

Job 37:10

“The breath of God produces ice, and the broad waters become frozen.”

Unfortunately, this seems an even worse fit.

But why even accept that an Ice Age ever occurred in the first place? To do so you have to acknowledge that those, in your mind, always wrong pointy-headed geologists know what they’re talking about. That the evidence they present for an Ice Age is legitimate. So why bother to embrace the reality of a past Ice Age? Why bother with the mental gymnastics involved trying to link it to Noah’s Flood?



Here are a few examples of the YEC view on the Ice Age:

The Ice Age and the Genesis Flood

The Genesis flood caused the Ice Age

[wattsr1]

Creationwiki proposes another verse in Job as speaking about the Ice Age:

Job 37:10

“The breath of God produces ice, and the broad waters become frozen.”

Sorry for taking this sideways Rogue - but here we see it again, just for Jorge and seanD.

Why bother with modern meteorological theory when the Bible tells us the real mechanism behind the formation of all ice?

And here we have a YEC publication, CreationWiki, wanting to take that verse seriously, but not in the manner the most straightforward reading tells us we should.

When it comes to Gen 1 OTOH ...



Regards, Roland

[Ansgar Seraph]

The water's gotta come from somewhere, Rogue

[rogue06]

The water's gotta come from somewhere, Rogue

But why accept the existence of an Ice Age since there is no mention of such an event in the Bible? Isn't this an example of what Jorge declares "adding to" or "distorting" Scripture to make it fit into the secular scientific model?

[oxmixmudd]

The water's gotta come from somewhere, Rogue

Fancy that! And coincidently, there is significant evidence that when these behemoth ice sheets were putting the big chill on planet, the shorelines were significantly lower than they are now. Imagine that!

Interestingly, for the YEC scenario to play out, these massive sheets of ice (1 mile + thick) had to form, create all the fiords etc and melt away in just a few hundred years at most.

hmm ..... and on boiling hot land from the accelerated nuclear decay ... or do they think it was the big ice sheets that cooled the crust back down


I just kill myself.



Jim

[Ansgar Seraph]

But why accept the existence of an Ice Age since there is no mention of such an event in the Bible? Isn't this an example of what Jorge declares "adding to" or "distorting" Scripture to make it fit into the secular scientific model?

Devil's Advocate Mode:

Well, what you call an "Ice Age" isn't anywhere in the Bible but you're assuming there was gajillions of years to make an "Age" possible in the first place! The Bible doesn't mention every detail of the earth's composition. We know there was some kind of ice encircling earth and it doesn't matter whether it was an ice sphere in space or an ice block over the land!

You're the one distorting Scripture by adding in gigayears and "Ages" . . . just explaining where the Flood waters might have come from isn't changing the fact, Fact, FACT that the Flood happened.

Darn it, I just can't think Jorgian very well.

—Sam

[FreezBee]

But why accept the existence of an Ice Age since there is no mention of such an event in the Bible? Isn't this an example of what Jorge declares "adding to" or "distorting" Scripture to make it fit into the secular scientific model?

Dr. Bernard E. Northrup doesn't think so. From hos article On Finding An Ice Age Book:

link above

The model which I propose in this paper is extremely helpful in understanding the genesis of geology and the confirmatory testimony which the careful study of the physical sciences actually gives to the statement of the Scriptures about earth's earlier events. Through this model I have concluded that Genesis and geology both have exactly the same message. Now this does not require adapting Genesis to geology at all, but rather casts the light of the facts of geology upon the text of Genesis so that we can recognize the wider catastrophic nature of the Biblical testimony. Once the researcher eliminates the fallacious assumptions of geological time, assumptions and miscalculations which are so critical to evolutionary historical geology, the two accounts remarkably carry the same message. The fact that the two records which always have played the same tune only becomes recognizable when one plays the geological record at the same speed as the Biblical record! Suddenly every glissando, every crescendo and every andante passage produce sufficient harmony that one can recognize that the two scores came from the same Master.

© source where applicable

The book referred to in the article title is the Book of Job, which in Northrup's reading becomes a report about the ice age. Apparently Northup in his eager for 'harmonization' completely forgets that the calamities mentioned were supposed to hit Job (and his cattle and workers), but who's counting?


- FreezBee

[Ansgar Seraph]

Fancy that! And coincidently, there is significant evidence that when these behemoth ice sheets were putting the big chill on planet, the shorelines were significantly lower than they are now. Imagine that!

Interestingly, for the YEC scenario to play out, these massive sheets of ice (1 mile + thick) had to form, create all the fiords etc and melt away in just a few hundred years at most.

hmm ..... and on boiling hot land from the accelerated nuclear decay ... or do they think it was the big ice sheets that cooled the crust back down


I just kill myself.



Jim

Hrm . . .

1. Accelerated Nuclear Decay melts the ice sheets.
2. Ice sheets turn into steam
3. Steam condenses in the atmosphere
4. 40 days/nights of rain

We can make this work

—Sam

PS: Sorry, Rogue . . . I'll stop now.

[wattsr1]

Interestingly, for the YEC scenario to play out, ... create all the fiords etc ...

Re YEC and the fiords. It's ironical given that YECs are ID.

The fiords are intelligently designed - by a bloke with the name of "Artystartblartfaster" (spelling?). They are not a natural phenomenon.


Regards, Roland

[wattsr1]

Hrm . . .

1. Accelerated Nuclear Decay melts the ice sheets.
2. Ice sheets turn into steam
3. Steam condenses in the atmosphere
4. 40 days/nights of rain

We can make this work

—Sam

PS: Sorry, Rogue . . . I'll stop now.

And then the Accelerated Nuclear Decay returns to evaporate away all the water away. The heat kills off all the dinosaurs that came off the ark.

This is all proved to be true because:-

1) we have not so much water now and

2) there are no dinosaurs.



I'll stop too.


Regards, Roland

[rogue06]

The Ice Age. The term usually refers to the most recent global cold period that peaked roughly 20,000 years ago in which sheets of ice thousands of feet thick covered much of Asia, Europe and North America (and likewise the land masses of the Southern Hemisphere to a lesser extent), although technically it appears there were at least four of these events in Earth’s history.

This isn’t going to be about the various Ice Ages, or the mechanisms that may have brought them about, but rather to ask why do Young Earth Creationists (YECs) accept that even one took place. Clearly there is not a scintilla of supporting evidence to be found in the Bible that speaks of the Earth enduring an Ice Age (much less several). The best I have been able to find is this from AnswersinGenesis (AiG) and a few other YEC websites:

Job 38:29–30

“From whose womb comes the ice? And the frost of heaven, who gives it birth? The waters harden like stone, and the surface of the deep is frozen.”

That seems to be an incredible stretch to imagine this describes an event where large portions of continents were buried under a mile of ice whether for approximately 100,000 years (or a much shorter period as AiG insists). It seems to more accurately describe the surface of water turning to ice – a fairly common phenomenon in many parts of the world during the Winter. Even AiG acknowledges that “Job could have observed frost and lake ice during winter in Palestine.”

In fact, the same article (HERE) offers up a possible explanation for the “reason the Ice Age is not directly discussed in the Bible” is that the “Scandinavian ice sheet and mountain ice caps were farther north than the region where the Bible was written.”

Attachment 71005

As can be seen on this map, where the Ice Age glaciers are marked in black, that they reached down into modern Iran/Afghanistan meaning they can hardly be dismissed as merely being some “Scandinavian ice sheet” if they were indeed around in Biblical times as YECs maintain.

Creationwiki proposes another verse in Job as speaking about the Ice Age:

Job 37:10

“The breath of God produces ice, and the broad waters become frozen.”

Unfortunately, this seems an even worse fit.

But why even accept that an Ice Age ever occurred in the first place? To do so you have to acknowledge that those, in your mind, always wrong pointy-headed geologists know what they’re talking about. That the evidence they present for an Ice Age is legitimate. So why bother to embrace the reality of a past Ice Age? Why bother with the mental gymnastics involved trying to link it to Noah’s Flood?



Here are a few examples of the YEC view on the Ice Age:

The Ice Age and the Genesis Flood

The Genesis flood caused the Ice Age

Perhaps Jorge or CTD or Calminian or Theroferrum or SirYapAlot could offer their perspective on this.

[rogue06]