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Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
    The law still exists across the board - it is illegal to conceal a handgun on your person (or, in many jurisdictions, within your reach, such as in a vehicle). Those persons who demonstrate proficiency and pass the tests related to safety, background checks, and allowable use get a 'license' to be excepted from the law against having a concealed handgun.

    A license is, for the most part, 'permission to do that which is otherwise illegal'.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      If you want to rehash old battles, you could start a thread about it, Rob.... I have no desire to do that all over again. I believed you were insincere in actually wanting civil dialogue, and it appears you're at it again. I'm not playing.
      But, you see, I have no interest in fighting past battles. I have merely sought your forgiveness as a brother in Christ for offending you, and defended my honor against your insults and attack upon my character.
      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by robrecht View Post
        Again, there is no provision in the US Consitution or Bill of Rights with respect to driving automobiles so your analogy is flawed.

        More than that, I am speaking of states' rights and the 10 Amendment.
        10th The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

        2nd A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

        The 2nd does, in my opinion (not worth much I suppose), does delegate to the US, the responsibility to protect arms rights.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
          But, you see, I have no interest in fighting past battles. I have merely sought your forgiveness as a brother in Christ for offending you, and defended my honor against your insults and attack upon my character.
          This was me, dear Christian brother, being magnanimous, recognizing you had a valid point, and prepared to discuss it in a civil manner.....

          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Allowing that driving is a privilege and carrying a handgun for self defense is a right, you may have a valid point.
          And this is you, somehow seeing that as some kind of attack....

          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
          Of course I have a valid point. Why would you doubt that in the first place? Because you think I am a dishonest fraud?
          I had genuinely attempted to engage in thoughtful civil discourse, and this is where you took it.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            This was me, dear Christian brother, being magnanimous, recognizing you had a valid point, and prepared to discuss it in a civil manner.....

            And this is you, somehow seeing that as some kind of attack....

            I had genuinely attempted to engage in thoughtful civil discourse, and this is where you took it.
            No, that was me reminding you that you have completely ignored my apology to you as a Christian brother, whom you have insulted and whose honor you have attacked.
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
              10th The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

              2nd A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

              The 2nd does, in my opinion (not worth much I suppose), does delegate to the US, the responsibility to protect arms rights.
              Do you think that the states have the right to regulate the individual's right of to bear arms? Or is the individual right absolute and the states have no such right or authority to regulate it?
              Last edited by robrecht; 01-14-2017, 08:40 PM.
              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                Do you think that the states have the right to regulate the individual's right of to bear arms? Or is the individual right absolute and the states have no such right or authority to regulate it?
                I have mixed feelings, but beyond abridging the citizenship of felons, I see the right to arms as absolute. Non citizens do not, in my opinion, have any such protection, nor should they.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  I have mixed feelings, but beyond abridging the citizenship of felons, I see the right to arms as absolute. Non citizens do not, in my opinion, have any such protection, nor should they.
                  If the right to bear arms is an absolute right of the individual citizen, not to be infringed in any way, who has the authority to take it away from convicted felons? Is it your opinion that all felons are no longer citizens and therefore should be deported or given some other status lower than that of citizens? And is that a matter of state law or federal law?
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    No, that was me reminding you that you have completely ignored my apology to you as a Christian brother, whom you have insulted and whose honor you have attacked.
                    No, haven't ignored. Still pondering. And you're giving me reason to doubt the sincerity of that 'apology'.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      No, haven't ignored. Still pondering. And you're giving me reason to doubt the sincerity of that 'apology'.
                      Thanks for letting me know that you are pondering my message.
                      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                        Thanks for letting me know that you are pondering my message.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                          So much for states' rights or the 10th Amendment when 'conservatives' control the federal government.
                          I quite fail to see how a bill that requires people to comply with each state's laws when within its borders is a violation of states' rights.

                          Regarding your explanation here, I accept that your statement is facetious. However, there seems to be a genuine belief behind it that conservatives are only for states rights when they are not in control of the federal government. I reiterate my corrective from that thread that those conservatives who are for states' rights are generally consistent in their advocacy of such.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            I quite fail to see how a bill that requires people to comply with each state's laws when within its borders is a violation of states' rights.

                            Regarding your explanation here, I accept that your statement is facetious. However, there seems to be a genuine belief behind it that conservatives are only for states rights when they are not in control of the federal government. I reiterate my corrective from that thread that those conservatives who are for states' rights are generally consistent in their advocacy of such.
                            No, as I tried to explain before, my facetious statement is only meant to apply to some conservatives, not all.

                            It may be that you or I misunderstand what this bill is intended to do. Perhaps wrongly, I did not understand it as "a bill that requires people to comply with each state's laws when within its borders." What would be the purpose of such a bill? Are not all people already required to comply with each state's laws when within its borders? I was under the impression that the bill would give someone who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in one state (where it is currently allowed) to also do so also in other states (where it may not be currently allowed). That is why I see this as a bill that infringes on states' rights to determine their own laws about concealed carry. It would seem that a view behind such a bill might be that the 2nd Amendment grants all individuals an absolute right to bear and conceal arms that cannot be infringed upon by any state authority.
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Why not just get rid of the need for C&C permits? Why do you have to have a permit to conceal a gun but you can carry one around openly with no permit? Maybe I am missing something but I think you should be able to carry a gun openly or concealed without a permit.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                                No, as I tried to explain before, my facetious statement is only meant to apply to some conservatives, not all.
                                I understand that's your intent, but your statement does not convey that intent AT ALL. Why not make it clear what you intend to convey?
                                It may be that you or I misunderstand what this bill is intended to do. Perhaps wrongly, I did not understand it as "a bill that requires people to comply with each state's laws when within its borders." What would be the purpose of such a bill? Are not all people already required to comply with each state's laws when within its borders? I was under the impression that the bill would give someone who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon in one state (where it is currently allowed) to also do so also in other states (where it may not be currently allowed). That is why I see this as a bill that infringes on states' rights to determine their own laws about concealed carry. It would seem that a view behind such a bill might be that the 2nd Amendment grants all individuals an absolute right to bear and conceal arms that cannot be infringed upon by any state authority.
                                See Cow Poke's post on the first page of the thread. As I understand it, if I had a concealed carry permit in Florida, I could not legally carry a concealed weapon in Maryland; the bill's intent is that I would now be allowed to carry a concealed weapon in Maryland as long as I complied with Maryland's concealed carry laws, as long as I had a concealed carry permit issued by another state.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                                Comment

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