Why design a system that requires faith for salvation?

[OneSizeFit]

You think most Christians don't realize that?

Most of my Christian family members dont. It kind of neutralizes the point of atonement.

[RBerman]

Most of my Christian family members dont. It kind of neutralizes the point of atonement.

I don't see how repentance neutralizes the atonement. Christ atoned for his people, those who repent.

[Raphael]

I don't see how repentance neutralizes the atonement. Christ atoned for his people, those who repent.

I would say that the repentance is pretty important. Without the repentance It's pretty much saying "I don't need your atonement for this"

[Abelard]

Repentance and atonement are two separate concepts. JTB was preaching repentance before Jesus was baptized, but the repentance was based on law and not salvific.

The atonement made salvation possible for everyone. Both the atonement and repentance are prerequisites for salvation, but neither one depends upon the other.

[bling]

So your question is essentially why did God create sin? Correct me if I am wrong.

I think most Christians do not realize God was always forgiving of those who repented earnestly in actually turning from their iniquities. And IMO original sin is bogus theology.

No. Why did God establish the system that requires faith?

[OneSizeFit]

No. Why did God establish the system that requires faith?

I dont think God created any "system" we created the systems.

[Chappie]

If there is a God why does he not make Himself obvious?

Would it be fair if a brilliant scientist could proof logically there had to be a God from scientific evidence?
Does there always have to be some doubt to the existence of God or doubt in the promises of God?
There would have to be some benefit for humans to have faith that would help them fulfill their objective, over not needing faith, so what is the benefit:
1. We either have faith in self or we put our trust in God. Self reliance has to do with our money, country, insurance, family, friends, achievements and pride, while reliance on God is just the opposite and requires putting self aside; going from being percieved independent to being dependent on God.
2. Faith in God is a humbling experience, because it is something that the lowliest person can do and actually maybe more likely to do. You are no better than the lowliest believing person when it comes to faith.
3. Believing God/trusting God comes out of an admitted need for help. We all need help all the time, but might not feel or admit that need strongly until in a tragedy and if we live long enough we will all experience tragedies. Turning to God is an easy act of humility (made easy by tragedies), and we need humility to accept charity. God’s forgiveness of our sins is an act of charity (grace/mercy/Love). “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” and thus fulfill our earthly objective by just accepting charity.
4. Faith can produce humility, and humility allows one to accept charity, and forgiveness is Charity and forgiveness produces Love.
Did Adam and Eve have faith? Did the Jews that crossed the Red Sea have faith? Is faith needed in heaven? Is our faith the determining factor to our salvation?

He is as obvious as the noonday sun in June to eyes and hearts not blinded by Satan and sin...

[Chappie]

No. Why did God establish the system that requires faith?

It more perfectly serves his plans and purposes than any other system imaginable: Even to God...

[OneSizeFit]

He is as obvious as the noonday sun in June to eyes and hearts not blinded by Satan and sin...

Amen, having faith in a creator, treating one another with respect, showing reverence for life, should be natural and obvious.

[bling]

I dont think God created any "system" we created the systems.

Is faith a requirement?
Are there other requirements?

[bling]

He is as obvious as the noonday sun in June to eyes and hearts not blinded by Satan and sin...

So it is all satan's fault?
Is He obvious to everyone, to the point it is unquestionable?

[OneSizeFit]

Just accept the gift of God, by trusting and believing in Jesus. Let God work through your life, don't try to work God. If that is a "system" so be it.

[OneSizeFit]

So it is all satan's fault?
Is He obvious to everyone, to the point it is unquestionable?

Satan works in subtle ways, ego, self-deceit, material desires, jealousy, envy, hate. Whether we assign these traits to an outside force, or see it as an innate necessity of duality, it is there.

[hedrick]

Repentance and atonement are two separate concepts. JTB was preaching repentance before Jesus was baptized, but the repentance was based on law and not salvific.

The atonement made salvation possible for everyone. Both the atonement and repentance are prerequisites for salvation, but neither one depends upon the other.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. You're raising the question of how people were saved before Jesus. In Romans Paul seems to say that Abraham was justified independently of the Law. I take Abraham as the prototype for those saved before Christ. Why would you say that John's repentance is different than ours?

[Abelard]

Why would you say that John's repentance is different than ours?

John preached a legalistic repentance based on the law and fear of damnation.

Only after the atonement was evangelistic repentance possible where one repents because their sin offends Christ.

The distinction comes from Spurgeon, but I can't locate the exact reference.