LDS Take on Isaiah 44:6

[curtishouse]

Hey everybody,

I'm new to the forums so I don't know if this has been covered before but I was wondering what the LDS church's take on Isaiah 44:6 is where it states:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I have been talking with members of the LDS church lately and one of their doctrines is that Jesus Christ is "a" God, as well as Heavenly Father (not to mention his "wife"), and, most shocking of all, if we are "good enough" while here on earth, we may attain godhood ourselves. Doesn't this verse completely prove the LDS doctrine wrong? Any feedback is definitely welcomed and even more so from members of the LDS church. Thanks!

~Curtis

[OtherCheek]

Hey everybody,

I'm new to the forums so I don't know if this has been covered before but I was wondering what the LDS church's take on Isaiah 44:6 is where it states:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I have been talking with members of the LDS church lately and one of their doctrines is that Jesus Christ is "a" God, as well as Heavenly Father (not to mention his "wife"), and, most shocking of all, if we are "good enough" while here on earth, we may attain godhood ourselves. Doesn't this verse completely prove the LDS doctrine wrong? Any feedback is definitely welcomed and even more so from members of the LDS church. Thanks!

~Curtis

Hi, Curtis.

Welcome to the forum. I'm LDS, and I'll offer my thoughts.

Israel, as you know, spent 400 years in Egypt. They were fully indoctrinated in idol worship. When Moses led them out of Egypt, they settled in Canaan, and did not do as the Lord commanded--to separate themselves from the idol-worshiping nations around them. The Northern Kingdom of Israel was scattered because of their idol worship. Prophets were continually urging the nation to turn from the worship of idols. Isaiah was no different.

Isaiah 44 is all about not worshiping graven images (idols). The only God that we are to worship is the God of Israel. We are commanded to worship no other gods other than this God.

The verse (and chapter) is teaching us who we are to worship. And though I believe the promises of God given through a modern prophet, I don't worship my ancestors, or any who have passed on, who may have already received their exaltation and glory in the world to come.

[nrajeff]

One thing that I wonder is: Yahweh, dictating the 10 Commandments to Moses, could just as easily have commanded "Don't have any other gods AT ALL except Me because there ain't any" instead of "Don't have any gods BEFORE Me." I mean, if Yahweh had wanted to make Curtis feel more secure in his belief that God is as much a strict monotheist as Curtis appears to be.... :)

[Sparko]

Since God is the only God, all other Gods ARE Idols and false by definition, so mentioning he was talking about idols is nonsensical. Same with the 10 Commandments.

YHWH was telling them that he IS the only God, that there are no others. He is saying he is not a created idol like the others. He is the only God in existence, that he alone created the earth, that he had no helpers. That there are no other Gods that came before him, nor will there be any Gods after him.

I am sure all of the Idol worshipers believed their gods were real too, and they might have tried the same argument that OC did "oh well he is just arguing against fake Gods, but since Baal is a real God he isn't talking about HIM!"

riiiight.

Not to mention since YHWH was speaking, and the LDS believe that YHWH is the Son and not the Father, it kinda puts a crimp in their theology since YHWH says there are no Gods besides him, and that created ALONE. If YHWH is just the Son, he just said that the Father is not a God and didn't help him create.

oops.

[curtishouse]

Since God is the only God, all other Gods ARE Idols and false by definition, so mentioning he was talking about idols is nonsensical. Same with the 10 Commandments.

YHWH was telling them that he IS the only God, that there are no others. He is saying he is not a created idol like the others. He is the only God in existence, that he alone created the earth, that he had no helpers. That there are no other Gods that came before him, nor will there be any Gods after him.

I am sure all of the Idol worshipers believed their gods were real too, and they might have tried the same argument that OC did "oh well he is just arguing against fake Gods, but since Baal is a real God he isn't talking about HIM!"

riiiight.

Not to mention since YHWH was speaking, and the LDS believe that YHWH is the Son and not the Father, it kinda puts a crimp in their theology since YHWH says there are no Gods besides him, and that created ALONE. If YHWH is just the Son, he just said that the Father is not a God and didn't help him create.

oops.

Great post thar Sparko!! Arrr!!!! Couldn't resist that LOL

That puts them in quite a bind as you stated since they believe that there are different gods...even though they equate them as one somehow since they say they're all in the same godhead.

This verse proves unequivocally that there is only one God. I'm sure the missionaries are taught some scriptural gymnastics to try to fight this verse but what it comes down to is the Word of God is Truth and Truth says I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. What side ye be on, matey?? Praise God for being so clear and being the author of peace and not confusion! :)

[curtishouse]

One thing that I wonder is: Yahweh, dictating the 10 Commandments to Moses, could just as easily have commanded "Don't have any other gods AT ALL except Me because there ain't any" instead of "Don't have any gods BEFORE Me." I mean, if Yahweh had wanted to make Curtis feel more secure in his belief that God is as much a strict monotheist as Curtis appears to be.... :)

I think it's obvious why...God would never use ain't cause ain't ain't a word! LOL

[curtishouse]

Hi, Curtis.

Welcome to the forum. I'm LDS, and I'll offer my thoughts.

Israel, as you know, spent 400 years in Egypt. They were fully indoctrinated in idol worship. When Moses led them out of Egypt, they settled in Canaan, and did not do as the Lord commanded--to separate themselves from the idol-worshiping nations around them. The Northern Kingdom of Israel was scattered because of their idol worship. Prophets were continually urging the nation to turn from the worship of idols. Isaiah was no different.

Isaiah 44 is all about not worshiping graven images (idols). The only God that we are to worship is the God of Israel. We are commanded to worship no other gods other than this God.

The verse (and chapter) is teaching us who we are to worship. And though I believe the promises of God given through a modern prophet, I don't worship my ancestors, or any who have passed on, who may have already received their exaltation and glory in the world to come.

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes Isa 44 is about idol worship and not to be worshiping FALSE gods...God Himself tells them straight out how many gods there are...before, now, and forever...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

[OtherCheek]

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes Isa 44 is about idol worship and not to be worshiping FALSE gods...God Himself tells them straight out how many gods there are...before, now, and forever...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

It's actually about not worshiping any gods whether idol gods, or false gods, or other gods. NONE.

[OtherCheek]

Since God is the only God, all other Gods ARE Idols and false by definition, so mentioning he was talking about idols is nonsensical. Same with the 10 Commandments.

YHWH was telling them that he IS the only God, that there are no others. He is saying he is not a created idol like the others. He is the only God in existence, that he alone created the earth, that he had no helpers. That there are no other Gods that came before him, nor will there be any Gods after him.

I am sure all of the Idol worshipers believed their gods were real too, and they might have tried the same argument that OC did "oh well he is just arguing against fake Gods, but since Baal is a real God he isn't talking about HIM!"

Baal is a real god? Really?

I thought Elijah kind of proved that idea wrong.

I kind of thought that Elijah first of all showed that idols carved out of wood, stone, or clay, weren't to be worshiped. And second of all, he showed that only one God was able to answer prayers.

[curtishouse]

It's actually about not worshiping any gods whether idol gods, or false gods, or other gods. NONE.

The verse does not say anywhere not to worship false gods...That is a topic for a different thread...It says there are no other gods. To further His point to make it clear, the Lord restates this a couple verses later...Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

[curtishouse]

Baal is a real god? Really?

I thought Elijah kind of proved that idea wrong.

I kind of thought that Elijah first of all showed that idols carved out of wood, stone, or clay, weren't to be worshiped. And second of all, he showed that only one God was able to answer prayers.

I'm not speaking for him but by reading his post, his sarcasm was pretty evident...God was making it clear to them...so clear that there couldn't be any wiggle room whatsoever for them to keep their own beliefs of worshiping false gods and still believing in the one and only true God...God tells them completely and with no room for "interpretation" to pervert His Word...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. ..Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. I beg of you to look past your pre-conceived notions (I know that's hard for everybody) and just read God's Word. Your eternal life is at stake. I'm not doing this to win an argument...Just let the Word of God speak to you. May the one and only God bless you.

[OtherCheek]

I'm not speaking for him but by reading his post, his sarcasm was pretty evident...God was making it clear to them...so clear that there couldn't be any wiggle room whatsoever for them to keep their own beliefs of worshiping false gods and still believing in the one and only true God...God tells them completely and with no room for "interpretation" to pervert His Word...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. ..Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. I beg of you to look past your pre-conceived notions (I know that's hard for everybody) and just read God's Word. Your eternal life is at stake. I'm not doing this to win an argument...Just let the Word of God speak to you. May the one and only God bless you.

Thanks, curtis.

I appreciate your sincerity. We could all use added measure of listening and understanding when the Spirit speaks.

[Sparko]

Baal is a real god? Really?

my point exactly. His believers thought Baal was real. Why would anyone worship a God they knew was false? Your argument that God was only talking about Idols and false Gods wouldn't have phased them in the least, just like it doesn't phase you. God was claiming he was the ONLY real God. That there were no other real gods. None before him, none after. That means that there are not three Gods who run this planet. That means there are no gods that ever existed before our God, and none will ever come after him. There goes your chances to have your own planet. I pity any world that has you as a God anyway. sheesh.

not to mention, since YHWH said he was the only God, that means he is saying the Father is not a God if your doctrines are true.

[Bill the Cat]

I think it's obvious why...God would never use ain't cause ain't ain't a word! LOL

As a true Southern Gentleman, I resent that statement!

[Bill the Cat]

Hi, Curtis.

Welcome to the forum. I'm LDS, and I'll offer my thoughts.

Israel, as you know, spent 400 years in Egypt. They were fully indoctrinated in idol worship. When Moses led them out of Egypt, they settled in Canaan, and did not do as the Lord commanded--to separate themselves from the idol-worshiping nations around them. The Northern Kingdom of Israel was scattered because of their idol worship. Prophets were continually urging the nation to turn from the worship of idols. Isaiah was no different.

Isaiah 44 is all about not worshiping graven images (idols). The only God that we are to worship is the God of Israel. We are commanded to worship no other gods other than this God.

So then why did He later come to earth and tell us to worship another?