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Thread: Themes in Isaiah 33

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    tWebber Bisto's Avatar
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    Themes in Isaiah 33

    Hello.

    Some years ago, I studied the topic of Hell (and Heaven and the New Creation). I remember reading the articles on Tektonics and Christian Thinktank and some Deeper Waters posts (as well as some other places). I ended up agreeing, and I continue to agree, with the "Hell as shame" view.


    Now, one of the passages that caught my interest on the topic back then was Isaiah 33:14f. I know the context of the passage is about something different, namely God's judgement on Assyria if I'm not mistaken. However, this bit seemed very interesting:

    Scripture Verse: Isaiah 33:13-‬20 NIV

    ...13 You who are far away, hear what I have done; you who are near, acknowledge my power! 14 The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: “Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?” 15 Those who walk righteously and speak what is right, who reject gain from extortion and keep their hands from accepting bribes, who stop their ears against plots of murder and shut their eyes against contemplating evil— 16 they are the ones who will dwell on the heights, whose refuge will be the mountain fortress. Their bread will be supplied, and water will not fail them. 17 Your eyes will see the king in his beauty and view a land that stretches afar. 18 In your thoughts you will ponder the former terror: “Where is that chief officer? Where is the one who took the revenue? Where is the officer in charge of the towers?” 19 You will see those arrogant people no more, people whose speech is obscure, whose language is strange and incomprehensible. 20 Look on Zion, the city of our festivals; your eyes will see Jerusalem, a peaceful abode, a tent that will not be moved; its stakes will never be pulled up, nor any of its ropes broken...

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    In a context of (earthly) judgement, it speaks of sinners who fear "the everlasting fire", which from what I've read everyone understands to be God's holiness. The apparent answer to their question "Who will dwell with that!?" is, basically, the righteous -- and to them it says, "you'll see the King in his beauty".


    This text, as I understand it, is not talking about Heaven/Hell; nonetheless, this theme or concept seemed very very similar to the idea of Hell as being ultimate fear/rejection of God's holiness and glory, and Heaven/New Creation as fellowship, blessing and "dwelling with" God in his holiness and glory.


    So... what are your thoughts on any of this? Maybe someone has written something on the topic re this passage, I don't know. BTW, feel free to question any of the above :-)
    We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
    - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    I'm not 100% sure what time period that chapter is referring to, but the "fire" mentioned plainly refers to destruction. It is something to be feared. I don't know where you get anything about "shame" in that passage.

    Hebrews 12:28-29
    Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: for our God is a consuming fire.

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    tWebber Bisto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    I'm not 100% sure what time period that chapter is referring to, but the "fire" mentioned plainly refers to destruction. It is something to be feared.
    Sure.
    I don't know where you get anything about "shame" in that passage.
    I don't think I said I do .
    Hebrews 12:28-29
    Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: for our God is a consuming fire.
    Same theme.

    My question was about whatever link between this theme, and that of what the righteous sees in God, there may be in that passage, and how that might relate to a united understanding of Heaven/New Creation and Hell.
    We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
    - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    These references come to mind as well:

    Psalm 24:3,
    . . . Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? . . .

    Deuteronomy 4:24,
    . . . For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. . . .

    Hebrews 12:29,
    . . . For our God is a consuming fire. . . .
    Last edited by 37818; 02-25-2017 at 05:26 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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