Originally posted by Trout
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
A question for atheists . . .
Collapse
X
-
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostSo thats how you know that God exists? Eternality ='s God?
James Moffatt in his OT translation translates God`s Name as "the Eternal.". . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostJames Moffatt in his OT translation translates God`s Name as "the Eternal."Last edited by Boxing Pythagoras; 02-19-2017, 11:29 AM."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostAs I noted in post #104 there is this book written by an atheist. The title happens to be, BTW, "The 'God` Part of the Brain." ". . . Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; . . ." -- The Chritian Apostle Paul.
James Moffatt in his OT translation translates God`s Name as "the Eternal."
Comment
-
Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View PostIf you want to argue that such an intelligence is possible, let alone likely, then you'll need to do better than bald assertion.
If it is physics which you think requires an underlying intelligence, rather than human intelligence directly requiring it, then why start this thread? Why not start a thread asking whether atheists think physics can come from non-intelligence?
So in order to know God, we have to trust Scripture.
. . . But in order to trust Scripture, we first have to believe God exists. Seems fairly circular, don't you think?
Interestingly, it was precisely this willingness which led me to lose my faith in Christianity, so your claim seems empirically incorrect-- at least, in my case.
Well, if you would like any of us to be convinced of this claim, you are going to need to argue for it, rather than baldly asserting it.
1) Nothingness never was. Therefore something always was.
2) Nothingness never existed, therefore existence always existed.
3) Existence which always existed is uncaused. Uncaused existence.
4) The universe is in evidence. All evidence is finited and temporal.
Now this last point is a matter of cause and effect. And not anything is caused by nothingness since nothingness never was.
5) There is an issue of cause and effect. That all causes are finite and temporal.
6) The evidence is finite and temporal, and therefore caused.
Now before we go further, there is a disconect between uncaused existence and cause and effect of that which is finite and temporal existence, caused existence.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, your assertion was that you know God, not that you have evidence or arguments that you believe is proof of a Gods existence, but that you have personal knowledge of God, that it is the Christian god. So my question to you was how do you know that this particular god of yours exists. If your argument is simply that something is eternal and some other things are temporal then we can debate that concept as well, but again the question is how do you know the eternal is distinct in substance from the temporal and that that distinct substance is known by you on a personal level.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostAll arguments are assertions. Atheists can only make a bald assertion there is no God, disallowing evidence as evidence, making the bald assertion there is no evidence - which is not even true.
Furthermore, it is not true that "Atheists can only make a bald assertion there is no God." I am an atheist, and I make no such assertion. Similarly, I do not claim that there is no evidence, and I often upbraid others who do make such claims. The testimony of believers is evidence, even if we don't find it very convincing evidence.
Well, let us start at square one.
1) Nothingness never was. Therefore something always was.
2) Nothingness never existed, therefore existence always existed.
3) Existence which always existed is uncaused. Uncaused existence.
4) The universe is in evidence. All evidence is finited and temporal.
Now this last point is a matter of cause and effect. And not anything is caused by nothingness since nothingness never was.
5) There is an issue of cause and effect. That all causes are finite and temporal.
6) The evidence is finite and temporal, and therefore caused."[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostAtheists can only make a bald assertion there is no God, disallowing evidence as evidence, making the bald assertion there is no evidence - which is not even true.
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostIf you disallow assertions. No evidence of any kind can be affirmed. < and that is also an assertion.
Those things are in evidence, but they are not evidence for the Christian god. I'm not refusing to understand it, you are refusing to provide anything that I could understand.
Are you unable to understand the difference between assertions and evidence? It certainly seems that way.You said you had evidence available to anyone. But when pushed, you admit your 'evidence' is only available to those who already believe.If the evidence for your god is only available if you already believe in it, then your god is not real.
There is no more evidence for your god than there is for Winnie-the-Pooh.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostA mere presumption of truth does not make anything true.
The act of believing does not make a thing true.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
Comment
-
Originally posted by Kbertsche View PostWhen you talk with a friend on the phone, how do you know that he/she really exists? How do you know that you are not interacting with an AI program like Siri or Alexa? How do you know that the entire relationship with your friend is not just imaginary? And even if you are personally convinced that your friend and your relationship with him/her are real, how can you convince a skeptic that the voice on the phone belongs to a real person?
Comment
-
Originally posted by Kbertsche View PostWhen you talk with a friend on the phone, how do you know that he/she really exists? How do you know that you are not interacting with an AI program like Siri or Alexa? How do you know that the entire relationship with your friend is not just imaginary? And even if you are personally convinced that your friend and your relationship with him/her are real, how can you convince a skeptic that the voice on the phone belongs to a real person?Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-20-2017, 01:43 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostBecause in such a case there are actual vocal sounds entering ears and you could convince the skeptics by handing them the phone and allowing them to listen in.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by whag, 04-22-2024, 06:28 PM
|
17 responses
104 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
04-23-2024, 01:46 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 04-17-2024, 08:31 AM
|
70 responses
397 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 04-26-2024, 05:47 AM | ||
Started by Neptune7, 04-15-2024, 06:54 AM
|
25 responses
163 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Cerebrum123
04-17-2024, 08:31 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 04-09-2024, 01:04 PM
|
219 responses
1,049 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
Today, 07:42 AM
|
||
Started by whag, 04-07-2024, 10:17 AM
|
39 responses
255 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by tabibito
04-12-2024, 02:58 PM
|
Comment