Originally posted by shunyadragon
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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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A question for atheists . . .
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. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, exactly what did God do to let you know?
So, how did god communicate to you knowledge of his existence?
Telling me what god didn't do to make himself known to you doesn't explain how he did make himself known to you. Shall I assume you have no answer to that?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostGods have always done that, regardless of which god...it's part of their job description.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Doug Shaver View PostYes, that is your claim. Why should I believe it?. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Roy View PostYou actually claimed "I have evidence for God. And it is evidence available to anyone." But that's not true. You don't have evidence that is available to anyone, you (supposedly) have evidence that is only available to you. You are assuming that others can obtain equivalent evidence, but you won't say what that evidence is, or how to obtain it.
You have nothing but empty claims, empty assertions, and empty arguments that you yourself reject:
Shub-Niggurath himself will provide you with personal evidence. But Shub-Niggurath is not going to force it on you.
Is that sufficient for you to accept that Shub-Niggurath exists? If it isn't, why should anyone take any notice of your claim about God?Last edited by 37818; 02-12-2017, 11:06 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
We can agree that there is something which exists uncaused. We do not agree on the properties of this uncaused existence. If you want us to believe that this uncaused existence has the properties which you ascribe to God, you will need to give a better argument than that there is some uncaused existence, and that you hold a sincere belief that this is God.
Again, it is completely beyond the linguistic evidence to translate the Tetragrammaton as "self-existent." I suspect that your concordances are offering translations which take theological argument into account.
The short, short version is that I came to understand that I held some theological views which I could not reasonably support. I decided to go back to First Principles in order to see if I could convince myself of the truth of Christianity. Much to my surprise, I found that I could not even levy a truly convincing argument for God's existence. As I could no longer bring myself to believe that deity exists, and as this is the prime foundation of all of Christianity, it therefore followed that I could no longer bring myself to have faith in Christianity.
As I see no reason to believe in Mind-Body Dualism, it seems clear that intelligence is a product of chemistry and physics in the brain. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and other chemical elements are not intelligent. Electricity and other aspects of physics are not intelligent. And yet, intelligence comes from them. I see no reason to think that some external intelligence is necessary to the advent of natural intelligence.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostUncaused existence, is eternal, omnipresent, posesses all things.
Its law of the excluded middle, it is either the idenitity of God or it is not. Since it needs no God.
The uncaused existence is the meaning of God's Hebrew Name.
I have other books. It is the third person singlular of "I AM" of Exodus 3:14.
So you being convinced there can be no God preceded your denial of your held faith.
Have you read "The Mind of God" by Paul Davies?"[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
--Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostGave me eternal life. Not to be confused with immoratality which is yet to be given when Jesus, God's Christ returns to this earth.
Already had it. Even as you and Roy do right now.
What do you mean?
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostI want to stop wasting time. Yet again you claim to have evidence of 'God', but you still haven't actually produced any.
...
Item 3 is what you lack.My guess you do not have a clear understanding on how you personally know anything.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostSo, how did god communicate to you knowledge of his existence?Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostHmm. You have the evidence for God already. You just no longer believe it.
You have the evidence for Shub-Niggurath and Winnie-the-Pooh already. You just no longer believe it.
You are providing evidence of nothing more than your own incapacity.Last edited by Roy; 02-13-2017, 07:20 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostFor you: That is why you are agnostic.
I simply believe in God.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostKnowing the gospel, which anyone who has read it can claim to know, is not the same thing as knowing that the god it proclaims exists. The question is how do you know god, not how do you know biblical claims of god.
The Apostle Paul claims the reason people are lost is the lack of the gospel. It is being hidden. see reference 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
So I am asking you, if you were to explain the gospel, what could you explain?
Not being falsified is not the question. How do you know is the question.
Intelligence is not an existing thing in itself, its an aquired ability. So the answer is that intelligence is an aquired ability of organized matter resulting from its interaction with its environment. How does a flower know to lean in the direction of the sun? You're right, it doesn't, it hasn't formed a more complex nervous system, but it is the beginning of knowing.
exist. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostWhy are there more counterfites claiming to be Christianity than any other faith system? If you were to explain the gospel, what could you explain?The Apostle Paul claims the reason people are lost is the lack of the gospel. It is being hidden. see reference 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.
So I am asking you, if you were to explain the gospel, what could you explain?
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