Are unbelievers evil?

[Vorkosigan]

You use reason and logic? I thought you'd say something like that. Now what I'm wondering is what is the source of reason and logic in an atheistic worldview?

Which atheist worldview? Confucian? Buddhist? Metaphysical naturalist/Freethinker? Pantheist? Metaphysical naturalist/Communist? ESPer? Specify, please.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I will go with the correspondence notion of truth. A is true if A corresponds to reality. Take the statement, "I have a post on theologyweb.com" Now if I make that statement anyone can see if that statement is true by looking at theologyweb.com and seeing if I have a post.

If you want to use a definition other than the correspondence theory then you'll be shooting yourself in the foot. Whatever definition you pick will be one you assume corresponds to reality and thus depends on correspondence theory.

By the way hrg, I am of the belief that unless God exists truth cannot exists simply because logic and reason have no basis for their existence in a world without God.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Jimbo. I'd also point out that I do think you're evil. On the other hand, I also think I'm evil. Being a Christian does not make one "good" in my eyes for we're all still sinners. Even Christians sin. However, the difference is that Christians know they're not good and seek the one who can make them good. There are two type of people. Bad people who don't do anything about it and good people who do something about it. You cannot make yourself good anymore than a leopard can remove his spots. You'll need something outside of yourself to make you good just as the body needs food outside of itself for change to be possible.

[Amazing Rando]

Today @ 05:53 PM post located here
ApologiaNick:

There are two type of people. Bad people who don't do anything about it and good people who do something about it.

Hey Nick, don't you mean "Bad people who don't do anything about it and bad people who do something about it?"

At least that's what I think you meant. Disregard this if it wasn't!

[trueseeker]

Question asked by Jimbo
Are unbelievers evil?
Wanting to know what Christians at TWeb think.

As I'm sure you have observered, Christians do not always see eye to eye on doctrine. However, I suppect the vast majority will say that at least unbelievers, if not believers as well are sinners and evil. The real differences that you might get, if you are truly interested in varing Christian perspectives, is our definitions of evil, sin, and sinner. And what we think the punishment is for remaining as a sinner-evil doer.

Here is my perspective.
God made man in His image, to be His children who have hearts that desire the things He desires.

With the great gift of free will, we as a race and as individuals have chosen to pick and choose our own desires over His.

This is the definition of sin, which means falling short. We are sinners because we have fallen short of what God intended us to be.

Evil is a word that often is tied to extremely wicked people, terrible images and creepy feelings. However, evil in most places in the New Testament can be translated as harm or harmful.

We are all evil, in that we are harmful to other people and ourselves, since we do not have hearts that fully desire the things that God does. And since we do not follow and act the why He intended us to.

Jesus came and showed us what we were made to be like. And if we are willing to follow Him, He will begin to transform us into what we were meant to be.

Those who are willing to be transformed into what God intended us to be, will be allowed to live with Him. Those who are not willing to become what God created us to be, will be unmade. Those who did evil (harm) toward others and did not repent of it, will be paid back with a fair amount of punishment, because God is just.

[Emery]

Today @ 11:00 AM post located here
ApologiaNick:

Jimbo.

You use reason and logic? I thought you'd say something like that. Now what I'm wondering is what is the source of reason and logic in an atheistic worldview?

In Christ,
Nick

Hi Nick. I think reason and logic come largely from observation and inference. Here's a crude example: I have observed that it hurts to hit my thumb with a hammer. So inference tells me, because of my observation, that it would hurt if I hit you on the head with one. I also observe that I don't like pain, and infer you wouldn't like it either. And, if I cause pain to you, you might retaliate, therefore increasing the chances of pain being caused to me, which is something I don't want. Therefore my reason, based on experience, tells me not to hit you on the head with a hammer.

Now as I said, that is a crude example, for in actuality, far more factors are available for me to base my decisions on. But observation of these factors is where my logic and reason come from.

Does that answer your question?

-Emery

[bar Jonah]

On the other hand, Emery, if you hit him in the head hard enough, he may either be 1) afraid to retaliate, or 2) dead and unable to retaliate. And then you can take his stuff.

I can just see Charlie Sheen and Miguel Ferrer in "Hot Shots: Part Deux" saying with a grin...

"Logic -- It's FANTASTIC!"

[Emery]

Yes, but that would make me a criminal, and then my problems will only just begin. Even without a belief in God, I have plenty of reasons not to hit Nick over the head. So don't worry, Nick, you're safe with me. I'd watch your head around RightIdea, however, especially if you have a lot of cool stuff.

-Emery

[bar Jonah]

Yep, plenty of reasons not to, just as you have plenty of reasons to do it anyway, especially if you can get away with it.

And of course, all the reasons you have not to... are selfish, self-serving reasons.

[mickiel]

There is none righteous, no not even one. All have sinned and do not measure up to God. Good peoples righteousness is like filthy rags to God. Unbelievers are not as evil as believers from what i have judged within mankind. Self righteousness is a greater evil in my view. For someone to even pose this question is evil in and of itself. Are unbelievers evil? No they are not. They are the reason for Christ comming to earth, he came not for the good people, but for the evil ones they call sinners. Jesus didnot come to judge how evil men are, but to save them, Luke 9:56. God himself is kind to evil men, Luke 6:35, he loves them. And the true offspring of Gods generate would love them too.

[bar Jonah]

So unbelievers are not evil... but believers are evil. Mickiel, your nonsense truly knows no bounds.

[mickiel]

Today @ 09:04 PM post located here
RightIdea:

So unbelievers are not evil... but believers are evil. Mickiel, your nonsense truly knows no bounds.

Jeremiah 23:11, choke on this truth. GOD said, even in HIS house, both prophet and preist are evil and wicked. I can understand you thinking my words are foolish, but read the creators opinon for yourself. If the preachers and teachers are evil, so are the followers. I didnot say ALL unbelievers or ALL believers are evil, because they are not. NEITHER side holds the monopoly on evil, but evil exist on BOTH sides. I just DETEST hearing one side throw darts or cast stones at the other. And christians do it MORE than sinners, so i consider them more evil in nature.

[bar Jonah]

LOL

Mickiel, is context a completely foreign concept to you? That was written during a time when Israel was primarily apart from God's will! Yes, the priests were wicked! Yes, there were evil men who claimed to be prophets! All of Israel was in turmoil, in bondage, in sin...

To apply that to other historical context, especially today, is absurd prima facie.

[mickiel]

Today @ 09:18 PM post located here
RightIdea:

LOL

Mickiel, is context a completely foreign concept to you? That was written during a time when Israel was primarily apart from God's will! Yes, the priests were wicked! Yes, there were evil men who claimed to be prophets! All of Israel was in turmoil, in bondage, in sin...

To apply that to other historical context, especially today, is absurd prima facie.

If you are suggesting that verse is not relivant to todays soceity, you had better read a description of each of Gods chruches in different eras up to laodecia and see for yourself what shape those people of God ARE in. The bible spans history and is relevant even now. Any mind that thinks there are no evil preachers, no evil pastors, no evil members, is just to me, if i may borrow your own words: absurd prima facie, times a thousand. I cannot believe you christians at times, its as if your heads are in the sand. Your the equvilant of spiritual camels, water can be on your back, and you'll still stick your understanding in the dark. All this just to avoid truth.

[bar Jonah]

If all scripture is directly applicable today, then I trust you never wear clothing made from more than one kind of fabric. No cotton pants and rayon shirt. Cotton-polyester is out of the question, of course.

You tell me. But of you course, your modus operandi has always been to use whatever scriptures fit your presupposition, and pretend the rest don't exist. There is no scripture that overtly, specifically refers to our culture and society today. You cannot take a passage that is referring to a specific time in Israel's history and reasonably claim that it's describing us today. It's patently absurd.

Of course there are false preachers and teachers today. Just turn on TBN. "Are unbelievers evil? No they are not." But you said believers are evil. This dichotomy is patently false.

If you can't even say what you mean, stop and check what you've typed before hitting the Send button.