Originally posted by robrecht
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This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.
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Literal translations of Biblical names?
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The same would apply for Eve, she was the only woman. In your reasoning there would not have been need for a name.
Adam seems to have been both male and female,
but after the woman was built from one of his ribs there is mentioning of "ish", man, and "ishah", woman.
Genesis 2:23, This one shall be called ishah (woman) because this one was taken from ish (man)."
In the continuation Adam denotes both the male and the name.
Geneis 2:25, Now they were both naked, the man and his wife, but they were not ashamed.
the man and his wife = "ha-adam v'ishto"
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Originally posted by Calminian View PostMaybe, but there are also more generic names for man in the book of Genesis. It would seem Adam was to function as his name, and it would seem he was named after the ground he was made from.
Also, someone mentioned both Adam and Eve were referred to as Adam, which makes sense since Eve also came from him. All are Adam, because all come from him, just like all that came from Israel are Israel.The same would apply for Eve, she was the only woman. In your reasoning there would not have been need for a name.
Adam seems to have been both male and female,
but after the woman was built from one of his ribs there is mentioning of "ish", man, and "ishah", woman.
Genesis 2:23, This one shall be called ishah (woman) because this one was taken from ish (man)."
In the continuation Adam denotes both the male and the name.
Geneis 2:25, Now they were both naked, the man and his wife, but they were not ashamed.
the man and his wife = "ha-adam v'ishto"
As for the phrase ha-adam v'ishto, the words man (ish) and woman (ishah) also serve in context as the words for husband and wife, especially when they have the suffix "his" or "her". Adam is ishahh in verse 6, "her husband." and in verse 8 she is ishto, "his wife."
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I would agree, just as I would agree Israel can both represent a nation as well as a person. It's just that in this case, it referred to a person first, so it would stand to reason this followed precedent. Adam was Adam before he was mankind because he existed prior to mankind coming out of him (including Eve who came out of him). That might be a key people miss. Eve came out of her husband, unlike the rest.
Originally posted by Just Passing Through View PostWhen Eve was created, she was also mankind...
Originally posted by Just Passing Through View PostYou're right, Eve didn't need a name. Once male and female were distinguished by ish and ishah, that's who she was. Adam didn't name her until after the fall .....
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Hmmm. That does make sense, thanks. Just looked the over those reference and noticed how often it's ha'adam. And it does seem clear both Adam and Eve are called Adam, with Adam later receiving it as his name. You've made me take a closer look at this.
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Paul mentioned two Adams
a first Adam and a last (or second) Adam
the first out of earth Hebrew "adamah" (after Genesis 2:7), the second out of heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:
44 σπείρεται σῶμα ψυχικόν, ἐγείρεται σῶμα πνευματικόν. εἰ ἔστιν σῶμα ψυχικόν, ἔστιν καὶ πνευματικόν.
45 οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται, Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν: ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν.
46 ἀλλ' οὐ πρῶτον τὸ πνευματικὸν ἀλλὰ τὸ ψυχικόν, ἔπειτα τὸ πνευματικόν.
47 ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος ἐκ γῆς, χοϊκός, ὁ δεύτερος ἄνθρωπος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ.
Writing thus implicates that, at least for him, the name Adam doesn't mean "earthling" as if derived from "adamah"
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostPaul mentioned two Adams
a first Adam and a last (or second) Adam
the first out of earth Hebrew "adamah" (after Genesis 2:7), the second out of heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:
44 σπείρεται σῶμα ψυχικόν, ἐγείρεται σῶμα πνευματικόν. εἰ ἔστιν σῶμα ψυχικόν, ἔστιν καὶ πνευματικόν.
45 οὕτως καὶ γέγραπται, Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν: ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζῳοποιοῦν.
46 ἀλλ' οὐ πρῶτον τὸ πνευματικὸν ἀλλὰ τὸ ψυχικόν, ἔπειτα τὸ πνευματικόν.
47 ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος ἐκ γῆς, χοϊκός, ὁ δεύτερος ἄνθρωπος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ.
Writing thus implicates that, at least for him, the name Adam doesn't mean "earthling" as if derived from "adamah"אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Postplease explain
Hebrew Genesis 2:7,
וַיִּיצֶר יְהֹוָה אֱלֹהִים אֶת הָאָדָם עָפָר מִן הָאֲדָמָה
"vayyitzer hashem elohim et ha-adam afar min ha-adamah"
and he formed, the Lord God, the man dust from the ground two creations, a creation for this world and a creation for the [time of the] resurrection of the dead,
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Postplease explain
Writing thus implicates that, at least for him, the name Adam doesn't mean "earthling" as if derived from "adamah"אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View PostPaulאָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostWe don't know for sure if or how well Paul understood Hebrew, but the association of the first Adam with the dust of the earth is still there, of course. His speaking of the second or last Adam as coming from heaven does nothing to invalidate the traditional Hebrew definition/etymology/association of Adam with earth in Hebrew since 1) Paul is writing in Greek, 2) Heaven is being contrasted with earth, and thus implicitly still acknowledges the association of the first Adam with the earth, and 3) Paul is not even discussing the meaning or etymology of 'adam in Hebrew. You agree, right?
next it says
1 Corinthians 15:49
καὶ καθὼς ἐφορέσαμεν τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ χοϊκοῦ, φορέσομεν καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐπουρανίου
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
εἰκών = Hebrew "tzelem"
It makes very much think of what Rashi says about "in his image", "b'tzalmo" Genesis 1:27,
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_...showrashi=true
And next:in the image of God He created him: It explains to you that the image that was prepared for him was the image of the likeness of his Creator.
Adam understood as "ani domeh" (= I am like, I do resemble ) by both Rashi and Paul
See also:
http://www.hebreeuwseacademie.nl/ind...ish&pid=tradam
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