What is Water Baptism ?

[RBerman]

You can read the context of 1 Corinthians 1:1-31 . . , yourself.. The Apostle Paul did baptize believers and re-baptize as needed (see Acts 19:1-7.) And as Saul, Christ Himself only commanded Saul to proclaim the gospel message (Acts 26:18.) Saul obeyed and was baptized also as instructed by the Apostles as Christ had also commanded them (Matthew 28:19, 20. Acts 9:18.) And Saul was baptized in water after he was filled by the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17.)

Christ commanded the preaching of the gospel and [water] immersion [baptism]. Baptism observance is to accompany the gospel message. The Apostle Paul's comment (1 Corinthians 1:17) was in regard to what Christ specifically instructed him. Christ didn't tell him not to baptize anyone.

The point being, baptism and the gospel are two separate commands, that go together. But one is saved through the message of the gospel (Romans 1:16) not the water baptism. (Mark 16:15, 16. compare Romans 10:13, 14.)

Those who teach baptism is required for salvation teach another gospel, which is a false gospel message of works.

Depends on what is meant by "baptism is required for salvation." "Baptism causes you to be saved" would be a false gospel. But "baptism is commanded of those who are saved" is a true statement. An "option" is something that you may decide to do or not do. Christ does not give us the option of not being baptized. If you are one of His, you are supposed to be baptized.

[headheart]

If you are one of His, you are supposed to be baptized.

Forceful, but gentle. I like it.

Thanks,
HH

[Rdr. Arsenios]

Rom 2:25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

What was the purpose of the Jewish circumcision?

Was it not to place the people of God UNDER the Law of Moses?

Yet the Seed of Abraham is Christ...

And we IN Him...

And entry INTO Him by Baptism...

Remember Peter with the Gentiles, and the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they were speaking in tongues, and prophesizing? It was much like a re-visitation of Pentecost, remember, except without the Tongues of Fire...

So Peter saw this, and do you remember his response? It was a question, remember? And by memory, my poor one, it was something like: "Given that the Holy Spirit has Himself come upon them, how can we deny them the laver of regeneration [Baptism]?"

Now Protestant understanding of this passage seems to be that the Gentiles were "saved" at this point of the Holy Spirit's arrival... Yet the Orthodox understanding is that this was the Holy Spirit's way of showing the chief of the Apostles that the Gentiles were to be included, by Baptism, in the Body of Christ...

Circumcision of the foreskin was a Type of the true circumcision of the heart, which the Prophets had, but many of the Jewish people did not have... Indeed, the passage you quoted showed clearly that the teachers themselves of the Law were its chief transgressors, when they themselves should have been its greatest exemplars... And this, of course, is the leaven of the Pharisees... Hypocrisy... They were infiltrated by haters of the Law, and used the Law to advance themselves while concealing their own breaking of the Law... This is why Christ's defense of the Woman Accused of Adultery was so direct and effective, for beginning with the eldest of the men who would stone her, he wrote their sins in the dirt, and one by one they departed, for each was condemned...

Which is why yesterday, in the Orthodox Faith, was Forgiveness Sunday...

And my Brother, I am at your feet...
Asking of you your forgiveness...
For all my transgressions...

Arsenios

[Chappie]

Originally posted by footwasher
Rom 2:25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

What was the purpose of the Jewish circumcision?

It was the sign of the covenant that God made with Israel

[headheart]

Now Protestant understanding of this passage [....]

Which is why yesterday, in the Orthodox Faith, was Forgiveness Sunday...

And my Brother, I am at your feet...
Asking of you your forgiveness...
For all my transgressions...

Arsenios

George! This is the second time! Would you please refrain from using this thread to address issues you might have with Protestant beliefs! Perhaps you might like to address them on another thread.

Sincerely,
HH

[37818]

Depends on what is meant by "baptism is required for salvation." "Baptism causes you to be saved" would be a false gospel. But "baptism is commanded of those who are saved" is a true statement. An "option" is something that you may decide to do or not do. Christ does not give us the option of not being baptized. If you are one of His, you are supposed to be baptized.

Yes. But my point was that baptism is not a means by which one obtains salvation to be saved. Now there is a salvation in baptism, which is only for those who have been saved, signifying one is dead in Christ, buried with Him, and raised in Him, that by their good conscience toward God, will not to live for this world, but to live for Him.

[headheart]

Now there is a salvation in baptism....

Would this be what you mean...?

From Charles Haddon Spurgeon's Exposition of Colossians chapter 2

“You have death, burial, and resurrection, all in Christ; and you received the outward sign and token of this when you were baptized, so believe firmly that it is so, and do not look anywhere else for it. You are neither dead nor buried apart from Christ, nor are you driven apart from him all you have is in him.”

It is only as you are one with Christ that baptism will be to you what he intended; but “buried with him in baptism,” you are dead to all beside, and all your life lies in him.

Sincerely,
HH

[37818]

Would this be what you mean...?

The Apostle Peter speaks of an "anti-type" where baptism is said, "doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) . . ." (1 Peter 3:21.) It is an anti-type of a literal, "eight souls were saved by water." (v.19) Now the flood literally destroyed the world that was (2 Peter 3:6). Now Noah and his family were literally saved from the world which was literally destroyed, they being in the ark (as a type of Christ.) So baptism signifies one is died to this world, being buried with Christ, and by a good conscience toward God, are going to walk in the newness of life that God gave by His grace through faith.

From Charles Haddon Spurgeon's Exposition of Colossians chapter 2

“You have death, burial, and resurrection, all in Christ; and you received the outward sign and token of this when you were baptized, so believe firmly that it is so, and do not look anywhere else for it. You are neither dead nor buried apart from Christ, nor are you driven apart from him all you have is in him.”

It is only as you are one with Christ that baptism will be to you what he intended; but “buried with him in baptism,” you are dead to all beside, and all your life lies in him.

Sincerely,
HH

I would agree with Spurgon. So unless one is in Christ by grace through faith, water baptism has no value.

[RBerman]

Westminster Larger Catechism

Q. 161. How do the sacraments become effectual means of salvation?

A. The sacraments become effectual means of salvation,
-- not by any power in themselves,
-- or any virtue derived from the piety or intention of him by whom they are administered,
-- but only by the working of the Holy Ghost, and the blessing of Christ, by whom they are instituted.

Q. 162. What is a sacrament?

A. A sacrament is an holy ordinance instituted by Christ in his church,
-- to signify, seal, and exhibit unto those that are within the covenant of grace, the benefits of his mediation;
-- to strengthen and increase their faith, and all other graces;
-- to oblige them to obedience; to testify and cherish their love and communion one with another;
-- and to distinguish them from those that are without.

Q. 165. What is baptism?

A. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, wherein Christ hath ordained the washing with water in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,
-- to be a sign and seal of ingrafting into himself,
-- of remission of sins by his blood,
-- and regeneration by his Spirit;
-- of adoption, and resurrection unto everlasting life;
-- and whereby the parties baptized are solemnly admitted into the visible church, and enter into an open and professed engagement to be wholly and only the Lord’s.

© source where applicable

[headheart]

Thanks for you participation in this thread.

As a result of my personal curiosity about what others believe about 'baptismal regeneration', I have decided to start a fresh thread, aptly titled 'Baptismal Regeneration'

Carry on here if you dig, but for now I am outta here.

Peace,
HH