What is Water Baptism ?

[Obsidian]

Are there not enough kooky unsubstantiated doctrines floating around out there to sufficiently confuse the masses for you? Why are you doing this? It is clearly not exegesis, but rather eisogesis of scripture.

So what? Not everything in the Bible comes directly from exegesis. God doesn't explain everything in express detail, which is what's basically required for exegesis.

But we do see that circumcision is compared to baptism. And we see that baptism symbolizes death. It's not much of a stretch to wonder if circumcision likewise symbolizes death.

I don't see any harm whatsoever in my interpretation, and it seems to fit the Bible passages just fine. I certainly think it's better than your own refusal to adopt any interpretation. You said that circumcision should just be a symbol for itself. Those words don't actually mean anything. You're just refusing to attempt any interpretation at all of the symbolism.

[Chappie]

So what? Not everything in the Bible comes directly from exegesis. God doesn't explain everything in express detail, which is what's basically required for exegesis.

Out of respect I’ll give you time to retract that statement.

But we do see that circumcision is compared to baptism. And we see that baptism symbolizes death. It's not much of a stretch to wonder if circumcision likewise symbolizes death.

Not much of a stretch, but no less a stretch, and like a tale being told by bore than one, it just keeps growing. Reasonable and logically inclined men would call that a hallucination.

**** Only a fool would stretch God revelations to men at all…

I don't see any harm whatsoever in my interpretation and it seems to fit the Bible passages just fine. I certainly think it's better than your own refusal to adopt any interpretation. You said that circumcision should just be a symbol for itself. Those words don't actually mean anything. You're just refusing to attempt any interpretation at all of the symbolism.

It is a sign of the covenant God made with Abram, just like the bible identifies the rainbow as a sign of God’s covenant with men to never again destroy the earth by water.
When a baseball picture hurls a baseball with all his might towards the plate; is it symbolic of God hurling the earth around the sun? Or perhaps it is symbolic of a comet being hurled through space. I can get really nuts with this thing. That would be symbolic of a person’s mind escaping from a nut house...

The contextual connection/suggestion is there only in your mind.

[Obsidian]

Whatever. I don't particularly think it's worth arguing over.

[Chappie]

Whatever. I don't particularly think it's worth arguing over.

[headheart]

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

'Baptism and the Lord's Supper are the two symbolical ordinances of the New Testament. The Supper represents the work of Christ, and Baptism the work of the Spirit. As in the Supper a small amount of bread and wine used in this ordinance exhibits in symbol the great work of Christ, so in Baptism the work of the Holy Spirit is fully seen in the water poured or sprinkled on the person in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. That which is essential in baptism is only "washing with water," no mode being specified and none being necessary or essential to the symbolism of the ordinance.'

Baptism, Christian

[Chappie]

There's a long-running debate on this topic, not surprisingly. Immersion baptists link baptism to the Mikvah cleansing rituals by which one became qualified to enter the temple; they tend to regard baptism as appropriate only for those who have verbally professed personal faith in Christ. Sprinkling/effusing baptists link baptism to other rituals in the OT, including the anointing of kings, the sprinkling of priests and of the children of Israel, etc. They tend to regard baptism as the ritual of inclusion in the visible church, but not a guarantee of personal faith or salvation, though normatively one anticipates children to follow in the faith of their parents. As a general rule that holds true, with many notable exceptions.

If one is commanded to be baptised into Christ, forget all the old testament rituals and let us stick to that which pertains to the baptism of Christ...

Why was Christ baptized? To wash away his sin: NO!!
Was it an Old testament ceremony? NO!!!
And on and on and on:

Then for what purpose was Christ baptized?
John 1:29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel."
32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."

Baptism is a public identification as a follower of Christ. Sorry folks, but that is as supernatural as it gets...

[OneSizeFit]

Baptism is a public identification as a follower of Christ. Sorry folks, but that is as supernatural as it gets...

Is it?

"I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

[Chappie]

Is it?

"I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

What's the difference between fire and water?

[OneSizeFit]

Different elements. Different baptisms.

Being baptized by the Holy Spirit IMO is directly from God.

It is by the power of God, while water baptism is purely symbolic, in the believer turning from sin. One comes before the other.

[RBerman]

If one is commanded to be baptised into Christ, forget all the old testament rituals and let us stick to that which pertains to the baptism of Christ...

Why was Christ baptized? To wash away his sin: NO!!
Was it an Old testament ceremony? NO!!!
And on and on and on:...
Baptism is a public identification as a follower of Christ. Sorry folks, but that is as supernatural as it gets...

We can probably all agree that baptism publicly identifies one with Christ. I don't know why you're so quick to discard what such a ritual would have meant to its recipients in the days of Jesus, though. The OT seems quite relevant to that topic. It's no different than thinking about the relevance of the Last Supper to the Passover meal.

[Chappie]

We can probably all agree that baptism publicly identifies one with Christ. I don't know why you're so quick to discard what such a ritual would have meant to its recipients in the days of Jesus, though. The OT seems quite relevant to that topic. It's no different than thinking about the relevance of the Last Supper to the Passover meal.

Hold on there RB. My intention was not to minimize the OT, but rather for the sake of discussion, narrow the scope just a tad... Once we grasp it as it pertains to Christ, then we are free to bloom like a summer rose...

BTW, was not the last supper a passover meal, are they not one in the same in what they celebrate? Hep me...

[Chappie]

Different elements. Different baptisms.

Being baptized by the Holy Spirit IMO is directly from God.

It is by the power of God, while water baptism is purely symbolic, in the believer turning from sin. One comes before the other.

What is the significance of "baptism by fire"? What is accopmlished?

[OneSizeFit]

What is the significance of "baptism by fire"? What is accopmlished?

The literal implant of the Holy Spirit.

[Chappie]

The literal implant of the Holy Spirit.

Cleansing & judgment..

Numbers 31:22-23
22Only the gold, and the silver, the brass, the iron, the tin, and the lead,
23Every thing that may abide the fire, ye shall make it go through the fire, and it shall be clean: nevertheless it shall be purified with the water of separation: and all that abideth not the fire ye shall make go through the water.

Isaiah 9:18
For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.
Isaiah 9:17-19 (in Context) Isaiah 9 (Whole Chapter)

Isaiah 9:18
For wickedness burneth as the fire: it shall devour the briers and thorns, and shall kindle in the thickets of the forest, and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke.
Isaiah 9:17-19 (in Context) Isaiah 9 (Whole Chapter)

1 Corinthians 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:12-14 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 3 (Whole Chapter)

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.1 Corinthians 3:14-16 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 3 (Whole Chapter)

[RBerman]

Hold on there RB. My intention was not to minimize the OT, but rather for the sake of discussion, narrow the scope just a tad... Once we grasp it as it pertains to Christ, then we are free to bloom like a summer rose...

BTW, was not the last supper a passover meal, are they not one in the same in what they celebrate? Hep me...

There's certainly plenty of parallel between Christ's atoning work (anticipated in the Last Supper and commemmorated by us in the Lord's Supper) and the passover. I'd argue that baptism serves a purpose similar to circumcision, a ritual that identifies those who belong to God.