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Republicans and Obamacare

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  • Republicans and Obamacare

    It's no secret that Republicans for the last 30 years have struggled to come up with or agree on their desired healthcare policies. Though they opposed Obamacare with fervor, nobody is quite clear on what they're going to replace Obamacare with.

    Conservative Republican journalist Matt Lewis wrote dozens or hundreds of articles for the Daily Caller over the years that were critical of Obamacare. Now that Republicans have the power to create and pass a replacement for it, he sat down and analysed the pros and cons of every Republican healthcare proposal. His conclusion? Keep Obamacare. He concludes that none of the Republican ideas seem substantially better than Obamacare, so they should just keep it, because he fears the alternative is that they end up screwing it all up royally.

    Of course, Democrats essentially left Republicans with nowhere to go on healthcare by moving so far right to create Obamacare. President Nixon advocated a version of Obamacare that was more left-wing than Obamacare. In 1989, Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation advocated what is now known as the 'individual mandate' and said they should "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance", and the individual mandate concept was being pushed by advisers to President Bush Snr. Due to the Dems moving away from the traditional left-wing position of single-payer and moving so far right with Obamacare and taking what was previously the right-wing's health plan and implementing it, the Dems have left the Republicans no real options on healthcare.

    Of course in my country where we have had single-payer for 78 years people shake their heads when they hear of Americans having to pay bills when they get medical care, or arguing with insurance companies, or having "medical bankruptcies", or talking about "co-pays" or "deductibles", or talking about staying in a job they hate for the health insurance. Here if you're sick you go to the hospital and get healthcare, there's no bills, no paperwork, no insurance companies to deal with, no floors of employees who write the bills, nor floors of employees who argue with you on the phone about what you do or don't owe insurance companies, nor floors of employees to generate paperwork for you to fill out... there's just you and the doctors. The doctors provide you with whatever healthcare they decide you need and then send you on your way. They're in charge, and there's no insurance company sitting between you and your doctor. The costs of the efficient system are automatically paid for by the government out of taxes.

    Watching the American arguments over healthcare is like watching a village argue over the government regulation of all the private taxi companies that drive people to the water well that's 20 miles away from the village every time they need water... and we think "um, so why doesn't the government just build a pipe to the well and then everyone in the village will have water on tap? Have they not discovered that's a thing? Are they so against 'socialism' and 'big government' they can't see that the government providing such a basic service is just cheaper for everyone?"

    There's an easy fix to the problems of the right-wing market-based plan of Obamacare, and it's called "single payer" and it's worked well in dozens of countries around the world. Even such mighty thinkers as Donald Trump noticed that the government-provided healthcare is great in Scotland when he was over there for his golf courses.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

  • #2
    You seem to be unaware of the Death Panels:
    Government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.
    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
      You seem to be unaware of the Death Panels:
      Government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.
      Your own link calls it a myth. Also, criticism of Obamacare isn't really relevant to the topic, which is about how Republicans can't replace a plan they came up with.
      Last edited by Psychic Missile; 02-05-2017, 09:43 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
        Your own link calls it a myth.
        Turn on your sarcasm detector. Although I see Jedidiah's so disconnected from reality that he believes in death panels and amen'd the post in earnest.

        I, for one, propose a yearly day of remembrance for the thousands of grandmothers slaughtered by Obamacare's merciless death panels, and for the brave Republican congresspeople who tirelessly voted to repeal Obamacare 60 times to save those innocent grannies from that horrible fate.[/sarcasm]

        Although when conservatives talk about death panels my mind immediately goes to an American movie I saw years ago about a leukemia sufferer who was in a running battle with his insurance company to get them to pay for the treatment. The US insurance company lawyers seem to be the version of the death panels which does actually exist.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #5
          Breaking Bad would have been a rather dull programme if there was a single-payer health system. Sick teacher gets treatable cancer, goes to see the doc, it gets fixed.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, never understood why a guy whose first allegiance was to the company shareholders was somehow better than so-called "death panels."
            "Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
            Hear my cry, hear my shout,
            Save me, save me"

            Comment


            • #7
              Whether a single payer plan would be best or not is really a distraction and non sequitur on Obama Care. OC was not single payer. It was (is) a nightmare. Instead of making healthcare cheaper, it made it more expensive and actually FINED the people who could not afford it. How the heck does that help the poor? Punishing them for not being able to afford insurance? And the insurance charges them outrageous premiums and sticks them with even higher deductibles so that they end up paying for insurance AND covering the healthcare bills too? It's crazy. Under Obamacare, you end up having to pay like $100-$300 a month for the cost of the insurance premiums. And that is a High Deductible Health Plan. That means you have to pay usually $2000 up front of the medical bills before the insurance even kicks in. And then you have to still make a co-pay until the yearly maximum is reached (usually around $3500 per person) and only then does the insurance pay 100%

              Yeah Obama Care is great!!! Starlight, when it comes to subjects like healthcare and insurance, which you admitted you don't have any experience with the US system, you probably should keep your foreign nose out of it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
                Breaking Bad would have been a rather dull programme if there was a single-payer health system. Sick teacher gets treatable cancer, goes to see the doc, it gets fixed.
                That's the sort of outcome that could only exist in fiction.

                In the real world, if Walter White was living in, say, England, he would have been diagnosed too late and received substandard care which would have dramatically cut his life expectancy.

                Source: Forbes

                http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomasphi.../#192f70264dca

                © Copyright Original Source


                Survival rates for lung cancer in England are pretty dire in general.

                Screen Shot 2017-02-06 at 9.03.17 AM.jpg
                Cancer Research UK

                Walter White wouldn't have survived long enough to create a meth empire if he was British.
                Last edited by Mountain Man; 02-06-2017, 08:22 AM.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                  Your own link calls it a myth. Also, criticism of Obamacare isn't really relevant to the topic, which is about how Republicans can't replace a plan they came up with.
                  ...up with which they came.



                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    That's the sort of outcome that could only exist in fiction.

                    In the real world, if Walter White was living in, say, England, he would have been diagnosed too late and received substandard care which would have dramatically cut his life expectancy.

                    Source: Forbes

                    http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomasphi.../#192f70264dca

                    © Copyright Original Source


                    Survival rates for lung cancer in England are pretty dire in general.

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]20733[/ATTACH]
                    Cancer Research UK

                    Walter White wouldn't have survived long enough to create a meth empire if he was British.
                    Oh I wasn't suggesting the NHS. It's been woefully underfunded for years now. Whilst it's better than bankrupting people it certainly needs a hell of a lot of work.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      How the heck does that help the poor?
                      It expanded medicaid to provide health care for the poor. Unfortunately the Republicans do their best to screw over the poor at every turn and the Republican dominated supreme court allowed Republican governors to choose to block the medicaid expansions in their states thus screwing the poor there.
                      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        It expanded medicaid to provide health care for the poor. Unfortunately the Republicans do their best to screw over the poor at every turn and the Republican dominated supreme court allowed Republican governors to choose to block the medicaid expansions in their states thus screwing the poor there.
                        medicaid was always available to the very poor. And would be under the Republican plan.

                        But Obamacare penalizes anyone who doesn't meet that qualification and forces them to pay fines if they can't afford insurance.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          and the Republican dominated supreme court allowed Republican governors to choose to block the medicaid expansions in their states
                          ...except half of the Democrat-appointed justices agreed with that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                            You seem to be unaware of the Death Panels:
                            Speaking of, that came up again this week... A GOP official at a town hall tried to argue Obamacare has death panels. It did not go well. The Republican official claimed "there is a provision in there that anyone over the age of 74 has to go before what is effectively a death panel."

                            In general, throughout the country, people are turning up to town halls really really concerned about the possibility of the Republicans taking away Obamacare. For many people, the health insurance policies they've been able to get through the Affordable Care Act have been the difference between life and death. This people simply won't accept the Republicans taking that away with only vague promises to "come up with something better" in return, and they've been letting the republicans know it.

                            It appears if the Republicans want to repeal and replace Obamacare, they have to first (a) agree among themselves on the replacement, and (b) market it to the American people to convince them that it will be better than Obamacare and people won't lose their insurance. Of course, the republicans can't do the first point because they have no plan and have nothing but diddly squat and hot air between them.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Boehner: Republicans won't repeal and replace Obamacare

                              Former House Republican Speaker John Boehner (notable for being the first Republican speaker in a long while not to have a sex scandal) stated the obvious today. A full repeal and replace of Obamacare is "not going to happen." Because "Republicans never ever agree on health care."

                              As I and others have noted, Republicans don't have a healthcare plan despite 30 years of pressure to get one.

                              Meanwhile nobody seems to have told Trump that Republicans have diddly squat when it comes to healthcare plans. Trump optimistically told reporters that early-to-mid March they'd release a healthcare plan. Trump's Secretary of Health, Tom Price, apparently doesn't think this is the case however.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment

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