The God Delusion by Dawkins

[shunyadragon]

What library did you work in that philosophy was not classified as either fiction or non-fiction?

They always had there own classification separate from everything else not labeled as either Fiction nor non-Fiction. I know of description in my experience that labeled these categories as Non-Fiction.

If you know of any such descriptive in library classification please reference it. My definition stands as provided.

[shunyadragon]

I also used to work in a public library. "Fiction" included literature: science fiction, classic, modern, romance, kids, mythology, and such. "Non-fiction" included everything else: maps, even new age, philosophy, religion, self-help, psychology, gardening, history, politics, home & garden, etc. I'm not sure if libraries are organized differently so I can't universalize it. But that is how our library was structured.

Vague generalizations in library classification will get you a cup of coffee at McDonald's for 32 bucks.

Can you provide a specific reference in a library classification that labels Philosophy and Religion as non-fiction. I doubt you can. My definition stands as referenced.

To add . . .

Source: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/nonfiction

nonfiction
When you read nonfiction, you're reading about something that really happened — it's not a story somebody made up.
Prose is divided into the two big categories of fiction and nonfiction, and nonfiction includes all kinds of things — biographies, histories, memoirs, how-to books, self-help, books on business, even books on writing. Narrative nonfiction relates stories that really happened but in a way that draws you in just like fiction does; it tells a true story, but with lots of drama and all the interesting quirks of the characters.

© Copyright Original Source

[Adrift]

I also used to work in a public library. "Fiction" included literature: science fiction, classic, modern, romance, kids, mythology, and such. "Non-fiction" included everything else: maps, even new age, philosophy, religion, self-help, psychology, gardening, history, politics, home & garden, etc. I'm not sure if libraries are organized differently so I can't universalize it. But that is how our library was structured.

The Dewey Decimal system seems pretty universal. I've never stepped into a library where religion and philosophy were anywhere but in the non-fiction section. Here are some examples:

Tompkins County Public Library, Tompkins County, New York

The Dewey Decimal System is the way the Tompkins County Public Library, and many other libraries, organize our nonfiction
books. In general, non-fiction books are books with facts and information in them, instead of a story that an
author made up from his or her imagination.

The Non-Fiction section is where you’d find books about animals, airplanes, math, foreign languages, how to draw, or
folktales from cultures all over the world!

Here are some subjects you’d find under the major Dewey Decimal sections in Non Fiction:
000s Generalities (including Computers and information on Libraries!)
100s Philosophy and Psychology (including information on UFOs and ghosts!)
200s Religions (including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and others!)
300s Social Sciences (Folktales and fairytales are found here!)
400s Languages (including English, French, Chinese, Hebrew and others!)
500s Science and Math (including Chemistry, Geometry, and information about animals!)
600s Technology (including – engineering, cooking, sewing, farming!)
700s Arts and Sports (including Drawing, Soccer, Football, Skateboarding, and others!)
800s Literature (Poetry is found here!)
900s History, Geography (including books on countries, wars, and ancient cultures!)

Anaheim Public Libraries, Anaheim California

Dewey Decimal System

How it Works
You can find a book at the library with the help of the Dewey Decimal System. This is the system most libraries use to organize the books on the shelves. A call number is assigned to each book based on its subject.

Nonfiction books are arranged in numeric order. Check the chart below to find the numbers for the general subject area you are looking for. Checking the number range on the end of the shelves will point you to the correct aisle to begin your search. The subject numbers listed here are the same in the Adult, Young Adult (YA), Children's, and Reference sections.

Fiction is shelved separately and is arranged by the author's last name. Biographies are shelved separately by the subject's last name.

Subjects
000-099 Encyclopedias, Computers, & General Information
100-199 Philosophy & Psychology
200-299 Religion & Mythology
300-399 Social Sciences, Politics, Law, & Education
400-499 Languages
500-599 Pure Sciences, Math, & Biology
600-699 Technology, Medicine, Manufacturing, & Building
700-799 The Arts, Recreation, & Entertainment
800-899 Literature
900-999 Geography & History

William P. Faust Public Library of Westland, Westland, Michigan

Dewey Decimal System

The Public Library of Westland uses the Dewey Decimal Classification (DDC) System to classify our non-fiction materials. Below is an overview of the DDC.

000: Computer science, information & general works
100: Philosophy
200: Religion
300: Social sciences, sociology & anthropology
400: Language
500: Science
600: Technology
700: Arts
800: Literature, rhetoric & criticism
900: History and geography

Wellington City Libraries Wellington, New Zealand

We shelve our non-fiction books according to the Dewey Decimal Classification system. The number on the spine of a book is its 'Dewey' number. We add the first three letters of the author's surname or book's title (if there is no author) to help distinguish between items with the same number.

There are Dewey numbers for everything from dinosaurs (567.91) to dessert recipes (641.86), from World War II (940.54) to wedding etiquette (395.22). The numbers are the same in the adult, young adult and children's collections - for example, you will find fairytales at 398 in each of these areas.

Dewey number

Subject examples*

000-099 Generalities Computing (004-006), general encyclopedias (030) and journalism (070)
100-199 Philosophy & psychology Paranormal phenomena (130), psychology and self-help (150)
200-299 Religion The Bible (220), Greek & Roman mythology (292) and Buddhism (294.3)
300-399 Social Sciences Relationships and family (306.7-8), politics (320), economics (330), law (340) and education (370)
400-499 Language English dictionaries (423), ESOL (420.7 & 428.24), Asian languages (495) and Maori (499)
500-599 Science Maths (510), astronomy (520), physics (530), chemistry (540), earth sciences (550), botany (580) and zoology (590)
600-699 Technology & applied sciences Health & medicine (610), gardening (635), pets (636), cooking (641.5) and business (650)
700-799 Arts Architecture (720), painting (750), photography (770), music (780) and sport (796)
800-899 Literature NZ & British poetry (821), drama (822), Shakespeare (822.33) and books about novelists (823)
900-999 Geography & history Travel guides (914-919), genealogy (929), European history (940) and New Zealand history (993.1)

Braidhurst Library, North Lanarkshire, Scotland

Non Fiction: the Dewey Decimal System

In libraries all over the world non fiction (factual) books are organised by the ‘Dewey Decimal System’ . This means that no matter if you walk into a library in Motherwell, Madrid or Mumbai, you will find all non fiction books, for example on “sharks”, under the same number grouping.
The Dewey Decimal System uses the following number groupings:

000 – General Subjects
(Libraries, Encyclopaedias, Museums, Newspapers, Journalism, Publishing)
100 – Philosophy
(Supernatural, Psychology, Ethics, Ancient and Modern Philosophy)
200 – Religion
(Theory of Religion, Bible, Christianity, Church History, Denominations and other World Religions)
300 – Social Sciences
(Politics and Government, Economics, Law, Public Administration, Social Problems and Services, Education, Trade, Customs and Folklore)
400 – Language
(English, German, French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese, Latin, Greek, and Celtic/Indic/Arabix/Asian/African)
500 – Science
(Mathematics, Astronomy, Physics, Chemistry, Earth Sciences, Prehistoric Life/Fossils, Biology, Plants and Animals)
600 – Technology
(Medical Sciences, Engineering, Agriculture/Food Production, Home Economics/Family Living, Business and Management, Chemical Engineering/Biotechnology, Manufacturing and Building)
700 – The Arts
(Civic and Landscape Art, Architecture, Plastic Art/Sculpture, Drawing/Decorative Arts/Design, Painting, Graphic Art/Prints/Print Making, Photography, Music, and Sports/Hobbies/Performing Arts.
800 – Literature
(American, English, German, French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese, Latin, Greek and Celtic/Indic/Arabic/Asian/African)
900 – Geography/History/Biography
(Geography and Travel, Biography/Genealogy, Ancient History, History of Europe, History of Asia, History or Africa, History of North America, History of South America and History of Other Regions)

[Boxing Pythagoras]

They always had there own classification separate from everything else not labeled as either Fiction nor non-Fiction. I know of description in my experience that labeled these categories as Non-Fiction.

If you know of any such descriptive in library classification please reference it. My definition stands as provided.

As Adrift adroitly notes, the Dewey decimal system which has been utililized as the standard library organizational system for quite a long while notes that everything which is not fiction is non-fiction. As those names, themselves, rather explicitly state.

I am, in fact, not aware of any library classification system which utilizes the phrases "fiction" and "non-fiction" in a manner which would separate philosophy into another category, entirely.

So, again, at which library did you work where this was the csse?

[element771]

The Dewey Decimal system seems pretty universal. I've never stepped into a library where religion and philosophy were anywhere but in the non-fiction section.

Anyone remember Conan the Librarian from the Weird Al movie UHF?

This was a great feat of research Adrift that demonstrably proves that Shuny is wrong. I wonder if he will admit that...

[mattdamore]

Vague generalizations in library classification will get you a cup of coffee at McDonald's for 32 bucks.

Can you provide a specific reference in a library classification that labels Philosophy and Religion as non-fiction. I doubt you can. My definition stands as referenced.

To add . . .

Source: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/nonfiction

nonfiction
When you read nonfiction, you're reading about something that really happened — it's not a story somebody made up.
Prose is divided into the two big categories of fiction and nonfiction, and nonfiction includes all kinds of things — biographies, histories, memoirs, how-to books, self-help, books on business, even books on writing. Narrative nonfiction relates stories that really happened but in a way that draws you in just like fiction does; it tells a true story, but with lots of drama and all the interesting quirks of the characters.

© Copyright Original Source

Hello, Shunyadragon. I didn't mean to be vague. As far as an exact classification system, Adrift beat me to the punch. The Houston Public Library does use the Dewey Decimal System, though they've flirted with Dickenson classification for broad subjects under the umbrella of non-fiction. As I recall while being trained for customer service and re-shelving procedures, there wasn't any dispute about whether such works as philosophy, religion, literary criticism, etc. belonged to the broad category of non-fiction.

The quotation from Vocabulary.com leaves much to be desired. Consider the first sentence: "You're reading about something that really happened." Consider the possibility that two works of science are sitting on the shelve: Newton's Philosophić Naturalis Principia Mathematica and Albert Einstein's On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies. Now the descriptive "really happened" is strange here. Either Newton's theories are correct (are "really happening") or Einstein's. To my mind, they can't both be correct. Therefore, either Newton's or Einstein's treatises contain something that "isn't happening". But it seems silly to scrap one or the other treatise into the category of "fiction". I think a necessary condition for something to qualify as being catalogued as non-fiction is that the author intended the work to be taken as true, whether it be the content itself or even a "true account" of fictional happenings. The Houston Public Library makes a broad division within the non-fiction category between "informational/expository" non-fiction and "literary" non-fiction. This is to accommodate the stylistic differences between books that are purely factual and books that are polemical, that argue for a controversial point of view, like philosophy, psychology, political science, literary criticism, or even cinematic reviews. As for narrative non-fiction, it depended. A book like a free expression of a certain imaginative experience could be catalogued either way, since it expresses the factual content of her imagination; but it could also be charitably shelved in the fiction section if the library's policy was too hard-nosed.

[shunyadragon]

As Adrift adroitly notes, the Dewey decimal system which has been utililized as the standard library organizational system for quite a long while notes that everything which is not fiction is non-fiction. As those names, themselves, rather explicitly state.

I am, in fact, not aware of any library classification system which utilizes the phrases "fiction" and "non-fiction" in a manner which would separate philosophy into another category, entirely.

So, again, at which library did you work where this was the case?

Your correct, and thank you for admitting it. As I said, Philosophy and Religion ARE NOT classified as Non-Fiction regardless. I gave the definition for Fiction and Non-Fiction, which should have ended this foolishness.

I worked at the Oklahoma State University library when I was in school, and was required to take a short course on the Library.

"My definition given stands. I worked in a library and philosophy and theology are not classified as either fiction nor non-fiction. That is unless you are atheist, and Theology would be fiction."

You probably missed the sarcasm concerning atheists and Theology.

[shunyadragon]

Hello, Shunyadragon. I didn't mean to be vague. As far as an exact classification system, Adrift beat me to the punch. The Houston Public Library does use the Dewey Decimal System, though they've flirted with Dickenson classification for broad subjects under the umbrella of non-fiction. As I recall while being trained for customer service and re-shelving procedures, there wasn't any dispute about whether such works as philosophy, religion, literary criticism, etc. belonged to the broad category of non-fiction.

The quotation from Vocabulary.com leaves much to be desired. Consider the first sentence: "You're reading about something that really happened." Consider the possibility that two works of science are sitting on the shelve: Newton's Philosophić Naturalis Principia Mathematica and Albert Einstein's On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies. Now the descriptive "really happened" is strange here. Either Newton's theories are correct (are "really happening") or Einstein's. To my mind, they can't both be correct. Therefore, either Newton's or Einstein's treatises contain something that "isn't happening". But it seems silly to scrap one or the other treatise into the category of "fiction". I think a necessary condition for something to qualify as being catalogued as non-fiction is that the author intended the work to be taken as true, whether it be the content itself or even a "true account" of fictional happenings. The Houston Public Library makes a broad division within the non-fiction category between "informational/expository" non-fiction and "literary" non-fiction. This is to accommodate the stylistic differences between books that are purely factual and books that are polemical, that argue for a controversial point of view, like philosophy, psychology, political science, literary criticism, or even cinematic reviews. As for narrative non-fiction, it depended. A book like a free expression of a certain imaginative experience could be catalogued either way, since it expresses the factual content of her imagination; but it could also be charitably shelved in the fiction section if the library's policy was too hard-nosed.

Too much verbiage to be meaningful. Fiction and non-fiction are not categories in the Dewey classification system.

[element771]

Your correct, and thank you for admitting it.

Umm...He is disagreeing with you and is agreeing with Adrift.

Adroitly means cleverly and resourcefully handing a situation.

Adrift's reference to the Dewey decimal system and its classification of non-fiction is what ended this.

[shunyadragon]

Umm...He is disagreeing with you and is agreeing with Adrift.

Adroitly means cleverly and resourcefully handing a situation.

Adrift's reference to the Dewey decimal system and its classification of non-fiction is what ended this.

No, I gave a proper definition for Fiction and Non-Fiction and the fact that in library systems including Dewey decimal system Philosophy and Theology are not classified as either Fiction nor Non-Fiction. Adrift's reference just confirmed this. The assertion that Dawkins' book is Non-Fiction is false.

[Kbertsche]

No, I gave a proper definition for Fiction and Non-Fiction and the fact that in library systems including Dewey decimal system Philosophy and Theology are not classified as either Fiction nor Non-Fiction. Adrift's reference just confirmed this. The assertion that Dawkins' book is Non-Fiction is false.

In the Dewey decimal system, the 100's are philosophy, 200's are theology, 500's are pure science, and 600's are technology. These are all generally nonfiction. Fiction generally is filed under literature in the 800's, or is filed separately. For more information, see http://penandthepad.com/file-fiction...-12045843.html

[shunyadragon]

In the Dewey decimal system, the 100's are philosophy, 200's are theology, 500's are pure science, and 600's are technology. These are all generally nonfiction. Fiction generally is filed under literature in the 800's, or is filed separately. For more information, see http://penandthepad.com/file-fiction...-12045843.html

Generally?!?!?! Your source makes no mention of non-fiction as a classification.

Source: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/nonfiction

nonfiction
When you read nonfiction, you're reading about something that really happened — it's not a story somebody made up.
Prose is divided into the two big categories of fiction and nonfiction, and nonfiction includes all kinds of things — biographies, histories, memoirs, how-to books, self-help, books on business, even books on writing. Narrative nonfiction relates stories that really happened but in a way that draws you in just like fiction does; it tells a true story, but with lots of drama and all the interesting quirks of the characters.

© Copyright Original Source

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Generally?!?!?! Your source makes no mention of non-fiction as a classification.

Can you point to a single library classification system which has a "non-fiction" category which does not include philosophy? The library where you said you once worked certainly does not utilize such a system. http://www.library.okstate.edu

[Bisto]

This thread was interesting until you guys started discussing this non-fiction issue (or is that a non-issue?).

To my eyes, everyone but SD agreed on that tangent, so you could just drop it and carry on. Just saying.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

This thread was interesting until you guys started discussing this non-fiction issue (or is that a non-issue?).

To my eyes, everyone but SD agreed on that tangent, so you could just drop it and carry on. Just saying.