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The God Delusion by Dawkins

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  • Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
    Can you point to a single library classification system which has a "non-fiction" category which does not include philosophy? The library where you said you once worked certainly does not utilize such a system. http://www.library.okstate.edu
    I worked at the library in the 1960's. What they use today versus almost sixty years ago is what?!?!?!. Your reference does not really define a different system except to provide locations in the library (different floors) for the call numbers, and it looks like the Dewey decimal system to me. It does refer to a separate Database system, which is likely new on a computer system obviously not present in 1967.

    There is no non-fiction category in the category systems. Generally does not work. Problem; books on mythology (obviously includes fiction) can be found in 200 - Religion (Theology), and would not be in sections reserved for fiction prose and literature.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-19-2017, 09:34 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bisto View Post
      This thread was interesting until you guys started discussing this non-fiction issue (or is that a non-issue?).

      To my eyes, everyone but SD agreed on that tangent, so you could just drop it and carry on. Just saying.

      shunyadragon is sort of like that hyperactive child at a family get together who's always trying to get a seat at the big people table, and can't stand it when no one's paying attention to whatever ridiculous thing he has to say. You're right that it's best to ignore that sort, but occasionally he takes a position that is so profoundly ignorant, something that any other rational individual would get almost immediately once it's explained to them, that you forget who you're dealing with for a moment, and think you can talk sense into him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        you forget who you're dealing with for a moment, and think you can talk sense into him....
        The fatal mistake I keep making...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          shunyadragon is sort of like that hyperactive child at a family get together who's always trying to get a seat at the big people table, and can't stand it when no one's paying attention to whatever ridiculous thing he has to say. You're right that it's best to ignore that sort, but occasionally he takes a position that is so profoundly ignorant, something that any other rational individual would get almost immediately once it's explained to them, that you forget who you're dealing with for a moment, and think you can talk sense into him.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
            Can you point to a single library classification system which has a "non-fiction" category which does not include philosophy? The library where you said you once worked certainly does not utilize such a system. http://www.library.okstate.edu
            My job was too add the cards to the new books in the large metal (some old woodies) cabinets in the Dewey decimal system, and then shelve the new books, shelve books returned, and check for proper shelving of books. I also removed cards for books being removed from the library.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              My job was too add the cards to the new books in the large metal (some old woodies) cabinets in the Dewey decimal system, and then shelve the new books, shelve books returned, and check for proper shelving of books. I also removed cards for books being removed from the library.
              Alright, so then the library used the Dewey decimal system. Which means that your earlier claim that there existed a "non-fiction" section in addition to sections on other material which is not fiction was therefore untrue.
              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                Alright, so then the library used the Dewey decimal system. Which means that your earlier claim that there existed a "non-fiction" section in addition to sections on other material which is not fiction was therefore untrue.
                I never claimed that there was a specific non-fiction category in the Dewey decimal system. As a matter of fact my contention is the opposite. There is NOT a specific non-fiction category in the Dewey decimal system.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  I never claimed that there was a specific non-fiction category in the Dewey decimal system. As a matter of fact my contention is the opposite. There is NOT a specific non-fiction category in the Dewey decimal system.
                  Well I think we confirmed that Shuny will never admit that he is wrong...even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by element771 View Post
                    Well I think we confirmed that Shuny will never admit that he is wrong...even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
                    I coulda saved you some time with that one.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by element771 View Post
                      Well I think we confirmed that Shuny will never admit that he is wrong...even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
                      How am I wrong! Please cite specifics.

                      One point of note the categories of the Dewey decimal system do not separate on the basis of fiction from non-fiction in the decimal system, therefore they are not 'generally non-fiction.' The literature section contains both fiction and non-fiction depending on the contents of the individual section of literature.

                      The literature concepts of fiction and non-fiction are not categories in the Dewey decimal system,
                      Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-20-2017, 12:10 PM.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        I coulda saved you some time with that one.
                        Yeah..I don't know why I always think things will be different. It is stupid to think...ok, even HE has to admit this one.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                          Alright, so then the library used the Dewey decimal system. Which means that your earlier claim that there existed a "non-fiction" section in addition to sections on other material which is not fiction was therefore untrue.
                          I believe you just threw the OSU web out there, and argued from web link without even knowing the content and relevance of the web link.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Shunyadeweydecimal
                            My definition given stands. I worked in a library and philosophy and theology are not classified as either fiction nor non-fiction. That is unless you are atheist, and Theology would be fiction.
                            ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              Originally posted by KBertsche
                              In the Dewey decimal system, the 100's are philosophy, 200's are theology, 500's are pure science, and 600's are technology. These are all generally nonfiction. Fiction generally is filed under literature in the 800's, or is filed separately.
                              Generally?!?!?! Your source makes no mention of non-fiction as a classification.
                              Yes, generally.

                              For an example, see the New York Public Library (arguably one of the top public libraries in the US.). Fiction is filed separately, NOT under Dewey Decimal. E.g. the Harry Potter books are filed under call number J FIC ROWLING, and The DaVinci Code is filed under FIC BROWN. And if you look for the works of Martin Luther, for example, you will find the following entry:
                              Source: NYPL


                              Luther's works / general editor, Helmut T. Lehmann.
                              Luther, Martin, 1483-1546.
                              BOOK/TEXT | Fortress Press | 1966 -
                              Available at Mid-Manhattan Non-Fiction Third Floor (230.41 L v. 19 Minor prophets II, Jonah & Habakkuk) plus 56 more

                              © Copyright Original Source


                              In other words, the Dewey Decimal section on religion and theology (the 200's) is explicitly identified as Non-Fiction.
                              Last edited by Kbertsche; 02-20-2017, 11:11 PM.
                              "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
                                Yes, generally.

                                For an example, see the New York Public Library (arguably one of the top public libraries in the US.). Fiction is filed separately, NOT under Dewey Decimal. E.g. the Harry Potter books are filed under call number J FIC ROWLING, and The DaVinci Code is filed under FIC BROWN. And if you look for the works of Martin Luther, for example, you will find the following entry:
                                Source: NYPL


                                Luther's works / general editor, Helmut T. Lehmann.
                                Luther, Martin, 1483-1546.
                                BOOK/TEXT | Fortress Press | 1966 -
                                Available at Mid-Manhattan Non-Fiction Third Floor (230.41 L v. 19 Minor prophets II, Jonah & Habakkuk) plus 56 more

                                © Copyright Original Source


                                In other words, the Dewey Decimal section on religion and theology (the 200's) is explicitly identified as Non-Fiction.
                                Is it me or is it quiet in here?

                                Comment

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