The revolution will eat you

[MaxVel]

Has any poster here who holds progressive-liberal or left-leaning political views come out and simply condemned the increasing use of violence to shut down speech, target people supporting politicians the left doesn't like, and prevent people from even hearing someone express their views?

After the riots at Berkley instead of a condemnation of this behaviour I saw a lot of excuses, conspiracy theories and anything but simple rejection of this behaviour. So it looks like people on the left are happy with an increasingly violent political environment in the US and in Western societies. We've seen the rise of subtle forms of violence in doxxing, blacklisting, deplatforming, attempting to have people fired for their politics, and so on, and now we're at street violence.

Where does this end?


Unless cooler heads prevail, we're moving to either (1) a violent response from the left's political opposition, with possibly street battles, rival gangs of political opponents targeting each other and the neutrals and moderates, and so on; or (2) some kind of 'leftist revolution' where their political opponents are forced from power, and any pretense at having a society where differing politics are allowed and even given a chance to flourish if people support them is quashed.

Neither alternative is palatable, and while leftists might think that (2) is quite OK, and all the 'conservative' people should shut up and get out of the way, history tells us this:

the Revolution eats it's own.

When a group of people have assumed power to overthrow the old order and build (by force if need be) a new society based on their new political philosophy, the group kills off some of it's own members, usually when someone even more extreme takes over. The French Revolution; the Russian revolution; the rise of Nazism; revolutions in Latin America are just some of the examples. If you're a leftist who is happy with the current way things are heading, you may be cheering on your own doom.

Do you really want a world where violence and force is the way people get their political beliefs enacted in society?

[Tassman]

When a group of people have assumed power to overthrow the old order and build (by force if need be) a new society based on their new political philosophy, the group kills off some of it's own members, usually when someone even more extreme takes over. The French Revolution; the Russian revolution; the rise of Nazism; revolutions in Latin America are just some of the examples. If you're a leftist who is happy with the current way things are heading, you may be cheering on your own doom.

Do you really want a world where violence and force is the way people get their political beliefs enacted in society?

...and the American War of Independence and the Civil War etc, etc etc. There are times when the old order must go.

[Starlight]

Typical hyperventilating conservative paranoia on your part. No the liberals are not all violent and out to get you, sorry if that doesn't align with your persecution complex.

What we've seen so far were less than a handful of isolated and minor incidents where it is not clear who was responsible. If and when it becomes regular and major and it is clear who is doing it, then I will comment.

Personally I think the conservatives will just die of old age, so there won't really be much of an issue medium to long term.

I think in general the millennial generation is less committed to the principles of non-violence and universal freedom of speech than the previous generation was who pioneered Flower Power etc. So in general I think you'll find that political activity and protest in general on both sides may include some very minor violence when millennials are participating.

[stfoskey15]

Has any poster here who holds progressive-liberal or left-leaning political views come out and simply condemned the increasing use of violence to shut down speech, target people supporting politicians the left doesn't like, and prevent people from even hearing someone express their views?

Do you really want a world where violence and force is the way people get their political beliefs enacted in society?

It does concern me, in part because it has a high backfire potential. If conservatives wind up thinking liberals are violent, that doesn't bode well for the success of the liberal ideology. In the other thread I said I was disappointed by the violence at UC Berkeley, meaning I don't support it.

[TheWall]

Well said.
It is not impossible even now to try to do something. In fact I have something to say. Starlight I disagree with you and am at times repulsed by what you say but I pray for you.
I pray that others here may forgive and pray for each there.
That Adrift and Mr holding can forgive each other. That grudges can be let go.
It goes against human desire but christ gives us a way.

Politics can be a feilittle for good if we let our actions be like salt.

[One Bad Pig]

Typical hyperventilating conservative paranoia....

Ironic, given the hyperventilating you've been doing here, especially since the Tumpocalypse ().

[KingsGambit]

I'm a pacifist so naturally I don't support anything violent. I don't feel the need to distance myself from the actions of people who happen to be on the same end of the political spectrum any more than conservatives should feel the need to distance themselves from (insert stupid actions from some conservative here).

Having said that, a few hours ago I did push back against a friend of mine who is significantly to my left who was calling for hate speech legislation.

[One Bad Pig]

Do [leftists] really want a world where violence and force is the way people get their political beliefs enacted in society?

Absolutely, as long as it's their political beliefs being enacted.

[MaxVel]

Typical hyperventilating conservative paranoia on your part. No the liberals are not all violent and out to get you, sorry if that doesn't align with your persecution complex.

Way to read your own prejudices into what someone else wrote.

What we've seen so far were less than a handful of isolated and minor incidents where it is not clear who was responsible.

Yes, street violence up to beating people unconscious, breaking their ribs, sucker-punches and so on is 'minor'.

Of course it's 'not clear' who was responsible, they were wearing masks and using hit and run tactics.

If and when it becomes regular and major and it is clear who is doing it, then I will comment.

No doubt with more of the same insightful and objective commentary you regularly serve up.

Personally I think the conservatives will just die of old age, so there won't really be much of an issue medium to long term.

Then enjoy your future life, alone with people who will not hesitate to use violence against you if you deviate from that party line. I suspect it won't be a long one, if history is anything to go by.

[MaxVel]

...and the American War of Independence and the Civil War etc, etc etc. There are times when the old order must go.

So you endorse the use of violence against people who hold different political views to you. That's interesting. Hopefully your host and home governments don't take you any more seriously than we do here, or you could find yourself in all sorts of trouble.

[Starlight]

Yes, street violence up to beating people unconscious, breaking their ribs, sucker-punches and so on is 'minor'.

When people are being killed regularly and they call in the national guard, then it's major.

[MaxVel]

Absolutely, as long as it's their political beliefs being enacted.

I fear you may be correct in many cases. For those that do, they're fools who refuse to learn from history.

[Starlight]

I see Reddit has banned /r/altright. The left is clearly out to get you MaxVel! Panic!

[Tassman]

So you endorse the use of violence against people who hold different political views to you. That's interesting.

So you do not endorse the notion of a "just war". That's interesting.

[MaxVel]

I see Reddit has banned /r/altright. The left is clearly out to get you MaxVel! Panic!

Confusing your projectionist fantasies with reality again? You should see Meh Gerbil, he has suggested a course of treatment for that.

I've never even read anything on Reddit (maybe once or twice when something else I was reading linked to it...) let alone posted there. Some of us actually do things to help others in the real world, instead of just being a 'keyboard warrior'. Get out of your Mummy's armchair and go and help the people in Kaikoura or something.