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The game-changing effect of the plummeting price of photovoltaic power

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  • The game-changing effect of the plummeting price of photovoltaic power

    I was shocked to read in passing that "The cost of solar has fallen by 85% in the past 7 years". I had known the costs of solar power were decreasing, but that rate of change is completely game-changing.

    This Vox article in Aug 2016 gives these graphs:





    The first graph does show approximately an 85% drop over 7 years, while the second one suggests a ~65% drop over 7 years. But the drop is very significant either way.

    And the dropping price looks set to continue, with these articles predicting:
    Solar Costs Will Fall Another 40% In 2 Years. Here’s Why.
    Solar panel costs predicted to fall 10% a year
    10% a year amounts to a 57% over an 8 year period, while 40% every 2 years amounts to an 80% drop over 8 years.

    Of course the downside of rapidly dropping prices, is that you don't really want to spend money installing solar panels now if you know that in a few years time they'll be much cheaper. Likewise investing in solar companies now is likely a bad idea as the dropping price will drive many of them bankrupt (as it did NanoSolar, a much-touted company I was following closely for a while).

    However, what I'm interested in discussing here are the hugely disruptive global consequences of the price of solar power continuing to drop. Once solar energy becomes cheaper than oil, people simply aren't going to want to buy oil anymore. Given that Arab nations and large multinational companies like Exxon-Mobil have massive amounts of money (and jobs) tied up in the oil industry, the worldwide failure of that industry and its replacement with solar photovoltaics seems like it has the potential to cause worldwide disruption.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

  • #2
    What if the prices are falling because demand is super low but lots of solar cells are in production or have been produced?
    Besides they can not work in all conditions and are not as effecient as gasoline. Gasoline is part of the production for much of green energy. That is not to say I dont support expanding energy i do but the energy i want expanded is nuclear.
    The sun is powered by nuclear eeactions bringing together hydrogen and hellium. It is fascinating. We can not do what the sun can in a nuclear reactor but we can produce massive amounts of energy and create jobs with the benefit of it being more effecient and if handled correctly pretty safe.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      This is how capitalism works. Want to get rid of one energy form? Make another comparable energy form cheaper, easier, and more accessible.
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

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      • #4
        Trouble is solar power is still no more efficient.

        I have solar lights in my back yard. The solar cells charge a battery all day long, and can barely light a single LED for more than 4 hours before dying.

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        • #5
          One of the reasons I like solar power is because it is a game changer in disaster situations.
          Instead of a hundred thousand people being without electricity due to [bomb/terrorist attack/tornado/flood/etc] only a few are affected.

          People with electricity can help those without.
          It is just safer for everyone.
          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            This is how capitalism works. Want to get rid of one energy form? Make another comparable energy form cheaper, easier, and more accessible.
            "Green energy" will succeed only when it become cheaper than the alternatives, because the fact is, the only "green" most people care about is in their wallets.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              "Green energy" will succeed only when it become cheaper than the alternatives, because the fact is, the only "green" most people care about is in their wallets.
              If it's cheaper, but not available in a large majority of the country, it's also not worth it.
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              - Stephen R. Donaldson

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                One of the reasons I like solar power is because it is a game changer in disaster situations.
                Instead of a hundred thousand people being without electricity due to [bomb/terrorist attack/tornado/flood/etc] only a few are affected.

                People with electricity can help those without.
                It is just safer for everyone.
                Except when the disaster is due to weather, where it is cloudy for days and no sun. Or in the winter when it us usually overcast and again, no sun. Or at night, when there is um, no sun.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Except when the disaster is due to weather, where it is cloudy for days and no sun. Or in the winter when it us usually overcast and again, no sun. Or at night, when there is um, no sun.
                  I'm pretty sure the people who set up solar power take that sort of thing into account.
                  Tesla is developing battery backup for the home.

                  https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

                  They've more work that needs to be done but I love the direction all of this is taking.
                  Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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                  • #10
                    The batteries run on either coal or gas.
                    This is why they still are in production they are cheap efficient and much can be done with them. I would want to expand nuclear but even that may not be enough
                    sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                      I'm pretty sure the people who set up solar power take that sort of thing into account.
                      Tesla is developing battery backup for the home.

                      https://www.tesla.com/powerwall

                      They've more work that needs to be done but I love the direction all of this is taking.
                      That is still just a battery. You have to feed it electricity to charge it up. Solar ain't gonna do it very efficiently. You might need to charge it for a week or two just to get a day of actual use out of it.

                      I don't know the exact ratio, but judging from my own experience it is something like 5 to 1 or higher of charging time to amount of electricity stored. So charging 5 hours might give you 1 hour of low power usage. Like running an LED light. Solar power is only good if you live in a place with 1. Lots of land to put a lot of solar panels and 2. a location with a lot of sunlight. Usually that means someplace like out west in the desert. Arizona, New Mexico, Texas. If there are clouds in the sky, the efficiency takes a major hit. If it is overcast, forget about it.

                      I think solar is a good "supplement" to maybe lower your energy costs or run things like yard lights, but it aint ready for primetime in most of the world.

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                      • #12
                        Oil is used for more than energy, so there would still be some demand even if solar could completely replace it for energy generation. I'm all for less dependence on oil, though we'll still need alternatives to solar and wind power because they are not always available.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          Oil is used for more than energy, so there would still be some demand even if solar could completely replace it for energy generation. I'm all for less dependence on oil, though we'll still need alternatives to solar and wind power because they are not always available.
                          We have a solution, nuclear power, but nooooooo. The liberals are afraid of it!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            We have a solution, nuclear power, but nooooooo. The liberals are afraid of it!
                            More appear to be warming up to it. There was a pronounced dip in support following the Fukushima disaster in Japan but that didn't last long.

                            Support-for-replacement-n-003.jpg

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              More appear to be warming up to it. There was a pronounced dip in support following the Fukushima disaster in Japan but that didn't last long.

                              [ATTACH=CONFIG]20805[/ATTACH]
                              Yeah putting nuclear power plants in earthquake zones might not be the brightest of ideas.

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