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Thread: Non-theistic Moral Realism

  1. #381
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    We are not passive victims of fate, as you typically continue to dishonestly assert, despite having had determinism explained to you ad nauseam. Every decision is influenced by the antecedent conditions which comprise our subconscious mind. So please explain how you can exercise free-will in a vacuum? This is logically incoherent. You clearly refuse to address this problem because you don't have an answer other than "god made a miracle" and gave you libertarian free-will.
    Tass, "Influence" does not prohibit free will. Influence isn't exactly deterministic and I think that unless ones choices are actually determined by, not just influenced by, the antecedent conditions which comprise the subconscious mind, then it doesn't really make sense to call it determinism.

  2. #382
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Tass, "Influence" does not prohibit free will. Influence isn't exactly deterministic and I think that unless ones choices are actually determined by, not just influenced by, the antecedent conditions which comprise the subconscious mind, then it doesn't really make sense to call it determinism.
    I would have worded it as influenced and limited by 'determinism.' I gave a more comprehensive description of 'determinism,' that indeed 'determinism' may include possible choices depending on how on defines 'determinism.' I believe Tassman is correct in describing the problem from the human perspective of determining or claiming one's decision making process as 'free will.'

    Actually in one way or another even various theological Christian views are deterministic. God in most views determines future events and decisions in the future regardless of what people believe concerning the 'free will' nature of their decisions.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  3. #383
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Tass, "Influence" does not prohibit free will. Influence isn't exactly deterministic and I think that unless ones choices are actually determined by, not just influenced by, the antecedent conditions which comprise the subconscious mind, then it doesn't really make sense to call it determinism.
    “Influence" does prohibit free will in that one is not aware of the influences arising from one’s subconscious mind. Hence, our decisions are not as “free” as they seem to be. But we make our choices nevertheless (under the illusion of 'free-will') and they form an integral part of the causal stream that is ‘determinism’.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

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