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Thread: Non-theistic Moral Realism

  1. #401
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    <snip>
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #402
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    The difference is that we have verifiable evidence of the existence of self-awareness and we know that it evolved via natural selection, just as intelligence did. We have no such evidence concerning your logically incoherent assertion of the existence of libertarian free-will.
    No Tass, you are ignoring your double standard. You suggested that freedom of the will was invalid because we do not know how or where it came about. But we don't know how or where self-awareness came about. On that specific point you have a double standard. Then you say that free will is not valid because we don't know how it works or could work - but as Sam Harris made clear, we really don't know how or why consciousness works. I understand both consciousness and free will from first person experience, you even have said that we have the illusion of free will. But why should I believe that free will is any more an illusion than my self-awareness?
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law. The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.” Grant Gilmore

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    You really are a hypocrite Shuny, and just so you know, going forward, every time you accuse me of denying science I'm going to link those posts.
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law. The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.” Grant Gilmore

  4. #404
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    You really are a hypocrite Shuny, and just so you know, going forward, every time you accuse me of denying science I'm going to link those posts.
    Which is a dishonest biased selective citing Baha'i scripture, which you do not remotely believe. I could care less what you do, because your unethical dishonest manner has no credibility.

    Yes you do deny science and dishonestly misrepresent science as with everybody elses beliefs you disagree with.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; Yesterday at 11:04 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  5. #405
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Which is a dishonest biased selective citing Baha'i scripture, which you do not remotely believe. I could care less what you do, because your unethical dishonest manner has no credibility.

    Yes you do deny science and dishonestly misrepresent science as with everybody elses beliefs you disagree with.
    That is a lie Shuny, I did not misquote your religion. I have backed you into a corner - who do you believe - science or the teachings of your religion?

    "If being without a father is a virtue, Adam is greater and more excellent than all the Prophets and Messengers, for He had neither father nor mother." (Some Answered Questions, p. 89)

    "O handmaid of God! It is with the Lord Christ even as with Adam. Did the first human being who came into existence on this earth have a father or mother? It is certain that he had neither. But Christ lacked only a father." (Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha 139:6)

    For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.

    Know that there are two natures in man: the physical nature and the spiritual nature. The physical nature is inherited from Adam, and the spiritual nature is inherited from the Reality of the Word of God, which is the spirituality of Christ. The physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. The first is the source of all imperfection; the second is the source of all perfection.

    http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-30.html

    http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/S...=highlight#gr2
    "The better the society, the less law there will be. In heaven there will be no law, and the lion shall lie down with the lamb. The values of an unjust society will reflect themselves in an unjust law. The worse the society, the more law there will be. In hell there will be nothing but law, and will be meticulously observed.” Grant Gilmore

  6. #406
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    That is a lie Shuny, I did not misquote your religion. I have backed you into a corner - who do you believe - science or the teachings of your religion?
    Yes you selectively dishonestly misquote the Baha'i writings, and failed to acknowledge the writings I cited, which describe many cycles of human spiritual evolution of humanity, and the recreation of humanity and the future of other cycles like the Adamic cycle. You also failed to acknowledge the definition of infallibility that defines this as only referring to the spiritual laws and principles of the Baha'i Faith, and not to the progressive knowledge of science that takes precedence over the literal interpretation of any scripture including that of the Baha'i Faith in the natural evolution of knowledge as Revelation, which is the primary nature of Revelation from the perspective of the Baha'i Faith. You hold to a stone rigid dishonest view of of the interpretation of other scripture including your selective interpretation of the Bible , and biased view of every other believers view other than your own very much like the view of Adrift as cited here:

    Quote Originally Posted by adrift
    Well of course I can comprehend a different perspective, but we each believe that our perspective is the correct one, or else we wouldn't hold them. Mine really is the correct one though.
    A selective citation of references can fallaciously claim to prove anything you desire.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; Today at 03:28 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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