Originally posted by seer
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Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
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Non-theistic Moral Realism
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“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by seer View PostThat only works if you redefine free will to mean that we can freely act according to our nature without external influence (the ability to do otherwise is not included). But heck my dog can do that, so I guess by your lights my Aussie has free will.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostLFW is logically incoherent because it does not allow for the effect of antecedent conditions impacting upon every decision and event and that one's decisions arise from a vacuum. OTOH Compatibilism argues that ‘free will’ and ‘determinism’ are compatible, and that it is possible to have both, to a greater or lesser degree, without being logically inconsistent. This is not my position, I'm a hard determinist, but it's what you're actually arguing whilst erroneously calling it LFW.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI agree the argument is in your favor, the physics argument, but I don't see how there could exist any notion of free will at all with respect to determinism, strict determinism, I have to agree with seer on that one, if strict determinism is true, then we are nothing but robots, not responsible for our actions. We would make choices of course, but each and every one of those choices would be determined as well, determined before we even leave the womb. I'd like to believe that isn't true, but I have no argument to mount against it.
As for being "responsible for our actions", we are responsible for them inasmuch as we’re genetically programmed to respond to the social mores of the community. And if we don’t, we are removed from the social unit. This enables the survival of the family and community...and the human species.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post. . . so are Jewish and Christian.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostCompatibilism argues that ‘free will’ and ‘determinism’ are compatible, and that it is possible to have both, to a greater or lesser degree, without being logically inconsistent.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAnd so was Moses' slaughter, rape and pillaging of neighbouring tribes. But we're are rising above primitive tribalism and national ideologies. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights reflects the instinctive values and ideals of humanity beyond mere tribalism and has gained the force of International Law. It overrides the tribal/ideological/sectarian interests of individual nations or religions.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Shuny, I don't hold determinism, I don't believe we are slaves to instincts as Tass does.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostDeterminism doe not translate to slavery to instincts. I do prefer compatibilism.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYes determinism does make you a slave to instincts and antecedent conditions and compatibilism does not deny determinism. You just have redefined free will.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostDisagree as previously explained.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostLike I said it only works if you redefine free will, and by the definition of Compatibilism (free to act according to our nature) my dog would have free will. Tass, do you believe my Aussie has free will, in any real sense?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe only difference between you and your dog is that you can wonder about that, wonder about whether you are a robot or not, and your dog can not, nor does he/she care.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd since I can wonder about that and do I care, perhaps I can then act - even against my desires and instincts.
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou can disagree all you want, you are still wrong - how can you be free but still determined?Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-20-2017, 11:04 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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