The Eruv

[DesertBerean]

Interesting read about how Jews in New York avoid the prohibition on carrying things in public on the Sabbath:

http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php...m_campaign=FBK

I still can't seem to understand the logic behind some of their prohibitions. I've tried, but the few articles I find don't seen to be written for a poor Gentile like me...

[Sparko]

It strikes me as "cheating" - If they truly believe in the sabbath and the rules, they would not try to invent "loop holes" to not actually observe it. They are trying to cheat by artificially calling an entire city their "private home" - which it clearly is not.

The whole restrictions on working and carrying on the sabbath have gotten way to extreme in the first place, to not even being able to work a light switch on the sabbath or push an elevator button. It is as bad as the Pharisees in the bible were with creating too many rules and restrictions. But now, to get around their own self imposed restrictions, they create new loop holes to let them cheat. God is probably up there shaking his head in amusement at their antics.

[Just Passing Through]

The command against carrying things on the Sabbath is derived from Jeremiah 17:19-27, where Jeremiah tells people not to carry a load through the city gate. He also mentions not carrying a load out of your houses, but that seems to be a secondary consideration. So they concluded what they have in common is not where you are carrying something, but that you should not carry something across a boundary or property line, since you could apparently carry things at home and you could carry things within the city. The eruv establish community boundary lines so that there is a clear area in which carrying would be allowed.
Yes, the Jews do go to extremes to create loopholes for the law, but this one isn't as much of a stretch as it might seem. All Manhattan isn't their "home" just because it's inside the wires. It is their community, whose gate they aren't supposed to cross. What seems silly to me is that if the wire breaks, suddenly the community no longer exists, and it becomes sinful to carry anything anywhere on the Sabbath.

[Sparko]

The command against carrying things on the Sabbath is derived from Jeremiah 17:19-27, where Jeremiah tells people not to carry a load through the city gate. He also mentions not carrying a load out of your houses, but that seems to be a secondary consideration. So they concluded what they have in common is not where you are carrying something, but that you should not carry something across a boundary or property line, since you could apparently carry things at home and you could carry things within the city. The eruv establish community boundary lines so that there is a clear area in which carrying would be allowed.
Yes, the Jews do go to extremes to create loopholes for the law, but this one isn't as much of a stretch as it might seem. All Manhattan isn't their "home" just because it's inside the wires. It is their community, whose gate they aren't supposed to cross. What seems silly to me is that if the wire breaks, suddenly the community no longer exists, and it becomes sinful to carry anything anywhere on the Sabbath.

yeesh. Why can't they just say that the ocean around Manhattan is the boundary?

Yep. Orthodox Jews are just as Pharisaical as always.

[hansgeorg]

Why can't they just say that the ocean around Manhattan is the boundary?

Good point.

[psstein]

yeesh. Why can't they just say that the ocean around Manhattan is the boundary?

The Talmud sets a distance beyond which one cannot travel on the Sabbath. That's why.

[Sparko]

The Talmud sets a distance beyond which one cannot travel on the Sabbath. That's why.

Well considering they have most of Manhattan already surrounded by the Eruv wire, it would not make much difference. Besides, even if the distance was greater than they could travel on the sabbath, doesn't mean they have to travel it.

[Faber]

The Talmud sets a distance beyond which one cannot travel on the Sabbath. That's why.

It was called a Sabbath Day's Journey, I believe a little less than a mile. It was the distance the Israelites were allowed to travel within the camp in the wilderness from the farthest point of the camp to the tabernacle. They figured that if they were allowed to travel that distance, it was okay.

[Sparko]

It was called a Sabbath Day's Journey, I believe a little less than a mile. It was the distance the Israelites were allowed to travel within the camp in the wilderness from the farthest point of the camp to the tabernacle. They figured that if they were allowed to travel that distance, it was okay.

well then, the eruv is already twice as large as that in width alone.


eruv_0.jpg

[Marta]

The command against carrying things on the Sabbath is derived from Jeremiah 17:19-27, where Jeremiah tells people not to carry a load through the city gate. He also mentions not carrying a load out of your houses, but that seems to be a secondary consideration. So they concluded what they have in common is not where you are carrying something, but that you should not carry something across a boundary or property line, since you could apparently carry things at home and you could carry things within the city. The eruv establish community boundary lines so that there is a clear area in which carrying would be allowed.
Yes, the Jews do go to extremes to create loopholes for the law, but this one isn't as much of a stretch as it might seem. All Manhattan isn't their "home" just because it's inside the wires. It is their community, whose gate they aren't supposed to cross. What seems silly to me is that if the wire breaks, suddenly the community no longer exists, and it becomes sinful to carry anything anywhere on the Sabbath.

Nehemiah 8

2 So on the first day of the seventh month Ezra the priest brought the Law before the assembly, which was made up of men and women and all who were able to understand. 3 He read it aloud from daybreak till noon as he faced the square before the Water Gate in the presence of the men, women and others who could understand. And all the people listened attentively to the Book of the Law. 4 Ezra the teacher of the Law stood on a high wooden platform built for the occasion.








14 Remember me for this, my God, and do not blot out what I have so faithfully done for the house of my God and its services.Remember me for this also, my God, and show mercy to me according to your great love.

************


Didn't Nehemiah go to the people in the same way that Jesus did - Jesus wasn't acting any different than Nehemiah when it came to his anger?by honoring the rest day of freed men. This is one reason we find the Passover Exodus experience and the keeping of Shabbat so intertwined both in Scripture and Jewish liturgy.

The Eruv:

A community eruv refers to the legal aggregation or "mixture" under Jewish religious property law of separate parcels of property meeting certain requirements into a single parcel held in common by all the holders of the original parcels, which enables Jews who observe the traditional rules concerning Shabbat to carry children and belongings anywhere within the jointly held property without transgressing the prohibition against carrying a burden across a property line on Jewish Sabbath. The legal aggregation is set up to have effect on Shabbat and Yom Kippur only; on all other days, including Yom Tov, ordinary property ownership applies. A valid aggregation has a number of requirements including an agreement among the property-holders and an aggregation ritual.

An eruv; Hebrew: עירוב, "mixture", also transliterated as eiruv or erub, plural: eruvin is a ritual enclosure that some Jewish communities, and especially Orthodox Jewish communities, constructed in their neighborhoods as a way to permit Jewish residents or visitors to carry certain objects outside their own homes on Sabbath and Yom Kippur. An eruv accomplishes this by integrating a number of private and public properties into one larger private domain, thereby avoiding restrictions on carrying objects from the private to the public domain on Sabbath and holidays.

[Marta]

well then, the eruv is already twice as large as that in width alone.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]20900[/ATTACH]

It not so much as the Eruv - it is about what's being brought within the perimeter that the Jewish people have to be careful. By creating a boundary around an area that has many Jewish residents legally creating a community. Like a Wall - Read Nehemiah.

Add-On:

UK's first Jewish boundary in use

[DesertBerean]

Interesting, Marta.

[Sparko]

Interesting, Marta.

really? I couldn't follow a thing she said.

[Marta]

really? I couldn't follow a thing she said.

Hmmm? The topic being the Eruv and how the Jewish people were not permitted to travel outside of the boundaries (within the perimeters, if necessary) on the Shabbath.


An eruv; Hebrew: עירוב, "mixture", also transliterated as eiruv or erub, plural: eruvin is a ritual enclosure that some Jewish communities, and especially Orthodox Jewish communities, constructed in their neighborhoods as a way to permit Jewish residents or visitors to carry certain objects outside their own homes on Sabbath and Yom Kippur. An eruv accomplishes this by integrating a number of private and public properties into one larger private domain, thereby avoiding restrictions on carrying objects from the private to the public domain on Sabbath and holidays.

In the book of Nehemiah - deals with this subject, the prophet stated, "Let every one with his servant lodge within Jerusalem". The Eruv - is set up in the same way, when describing the perimeter. Also, and in Nehemiah 10 the people made a solemn covenant to God that they would not do three things: have ungodly romantic relationships (10:30), buy and sell on the Sabbath (10:31), and support the work of God with money as He commanded (10:32-39). In addition, the people were bringing in grain and loading it on donkeys, together with wine, grapes, figs and all other kinds of loads. And they were bringing all this into Jerusalem on the Sabbath.


In addition: and with this thought about the Eruv,

The law states - Halacha, Halakha, The spirit of the law also forbids the transfer of ownership, even inside a building. The Sanhedrin legislated a prohibition against all forms of buying, selling, trading and other commerce for a variety of reasons. The Sabbath must be a day when all business stops.

In thought - Sparko, the idea was that "anything" (meaning goods to sell or to trade) that were brought into the city (eruv - is in the same respect, as within the city walls of Jerusalem) was (and under Nehemiah) forbidden - it was considered under "burdening" the congregation in a sense. Under law, and dealing with the parameters of Tircha D'Tzibbur, it could constitute as burdening the congregation or disrupting "that rest" on the Shabbath. It was forbidden to do business on that day whether it was within the city or outside of the city. However, the prophet "slept" outside the perimeter of the city to prevent anything from "burdening" the community. Hopefully, I am not in error on this subject -

Love your fellow as yourself

.

[Marta]

really? I couldn't follow a thing she said.

Is it more clear?