Just gotta love the anti-oil protesters......

[Leonhard]

Does that take into account the "carbon footprint per person" aspect? Generally, these private jets will be 4-10 people as opposed to 150-300 or so on airliners.

I'm still gathering data, though it's a bit hard getting a good estimate on numbers like this. Assuming we're not counting the pilot, say... Leonardo di Caprio, taking his jet on a trip. Usually a big airliner spends 1-3 tons of fuel per passanger, but a private jet requires up to fourty tons of fuel for the same travel. So if Leonardo brings a couple of other people, then it's still a couple of times more CO2 than an an airliner passenger.

If it's him alone...

But it's a bit difficult getting averages on this. It's turning out to be worse than I expected.

[Sparko]

I'm still gathering data, though it's a bit hard getting a good estimate on numbers like this. Assuming we're not counting the pilot, say... Leonardo di Caprio, taking his jet on a trip. Usually a big airliner spends 1-3 tons of fuel per passanger, but a private jet requires up to fourty tons of fuel for the same travel. So if Leonardo brings a couple of other people, then it's still a couple of times more CO2 than an an airliner passenger.

If it's him alone...

But it's a bit difficult getting averages on this. It's turning out to be worse than I expected.

I don't think it is the amount of co2, it's the principal of someone claiming we need to do everything we can to lower co2, and then not doing their part themselves. Perhaps not flying at all would be the answer. Instead of flying around the world for appearances and vacations, how about sitting at home and communicating digitally?

[The Thinker]

I guess you missed the part that it is not about the garbage they left behind, but the CARS full of oil and chemicals they left behind that will POLLUTE the very water that they are supposedly trying to protect? derp.

It's stupid and careless obviously. But it's still far less pollution than would happen if that pipe breaks.

[Sparko]

It's stupid and careless obviously. But it's still far less pollution than would happen if that pipe breaks.

Ah so it's OK to poison the water a little bit then.

Is it less pollution than if the pipeline didn't break?

[One Bad Pig]

It's stupid and careless obviously. But it's still far less pollution than would happen if that pipe breaks.

Of course, this pipe is being buried deeper (and thus farther away from the water) than other pipes ALREADY THERE.

[Cow Poke]

I'm still gathering data, though it's a bit hard getting a good estimate on numbers like this. Assuming we're not counting the pilot, say... Leonardo di Caprio, taking his jet on a trip. Usually a big airliner spends 1-3 tons of fuel per passanger, but a private jet requires up to fourty tons of fuel for the same travel. So if Leonardo brings a couple of other people, then it's still a couple of times more CO2 than an an airliner passenger.

If it's him alone...

But it's a bit difficult getting averages on this. It's turning out to be worse than I expected.

OK, was just curious.

[Cow Poke]

I don't think it is the amount of co2, it's the principal of someone claiming we need to do everything we can to lower co2, and then not doing their part themselves. Perhaps not flying at all would be the answer. Instead of flying around the world for appearances and vacations, how about sitting at home and communicating digitally?

Or they could ride their bicycles!

[Leonhard]

it's the principal of someone claiming we need to do everything we can to lower co2

I'm not sure anyone is claiming this, at least not in the official suggestions. It's always been simple things like a carbon tax, or subsidies for renewable energy development, or trying to cut down the red tape for nuclear power, energy savings, policies that encourage public transportation, policies that discourage fossil fuel use...

If we did everything we as rich western civilizations could possibly do, we could transition to pure renewable energy sources within a decade or two. Though it would be really awful. A plan like that isn't realistic, so no one is suggesting it.

You're definitely right that people think that scientists are saying we should do this, and I blame the media exaggerating the doom-gloom stuff, which makes it fall on deaf ears eventually.

[Starlight]

What a bunch of morons. Hypocritical to the max.

http://westernwire.net/abandoned-veh...-protest-site/

This story doesn't pass the smell test, and appears to be only being reported by unreliable media outlets. The protesters rely heavily on their cars and in many cases live out of them and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever for them to 'abandon' them. But the pro-pipeline authorities have consistently tried to steal protesters cars as a way of attacking the protesters, with one journalist there having her car impounded 3 times.

In my research to attempt to confirm or debunk this story I found that the tribes have decided to clear out one of the camps due to the possibility of future flooding, and have moved people to the other camp that is on higher ground, and that hundreds of the protesters have been working to fully clean out all the rubbish in the lower camp so that none of it gets into the river. The tribes have said they have been using some of the money donated to them to cover the costs of the clear-out. It appears that a couple of people who are pro-pipeline and anti-protest have taken the opportunity to run their mouths to a biased media outlet who has reported their false statements as gospel without any form of fact-checking, which Mossrose has naively reposted here.

[Sparko]

This story doesn't pass the smell test, and appears to be only being reported by unreliable media outlets. The protesters rely heavily on their cars and in many cases live out of them and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever for them to 'abandon' them. But the pro-pipeline authorities have consistently tried to steal protesters cars as a way of attacking the protesters, with one journalist there having her car impounded 3 times.

In my research to attempt to confirm or debunk this story I found that the tribes have decided to clear out one of the camps due to the possibility of future flooding, and have moved people to the other camp that is on higher ground, and that hundreds of the protesters have been working to fully clean out all the rubbish in the lower camp so that none of it gets into the river. The tribes have said they have been using some of the money donated to them to cover the costs of the clear-out. It appears that a couple of people who are pro-pipeline and anti-protest have taken the opportunity to run their mouths to a biased media outlet who has reported their false statements as gospel without any form of fact-checking, which Mossrose has naively reposted here.

citations or it didn't happen.

[mossrose]

This story doesn't pass the smell test, and appears to be only being reported by unreliable media outlets. The protesters rely heavily on their cars and in many cases live out of them and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever for them to 'abandon' them. But the pro-pipeline authorities have consistently tried to steal protesters cars as a way of attacking the protesters, with one journalist there having her car impounded 3 times.

In my research to attempt to confirm or debunk this story I found that the tribes have decided to clear out one of the camps due to the possibility of future flooding, and have moved people to the other camp that is on higher ground, and that hundreds of the protesters have been working to fully clean out all the rubbish in the lower camp so that none of it gets into the river. The tribes have said they have been using some of the money donated to them to cover the costs of the clear-out. It appears that a couple of people who are pro-pipeline and anti-protest have taken the opportunity to run their mouths to a biased media outlet who has reported their false statements as gospel without any form of fact-checking, which Mossrose has naively reposted here.

You are so full of it. Even this Reuters story about it says that many cars were abandoned and there is a great deal of garbage and waste left at the site. It doesn't say anything about the protesters helping to remove their own untreated waste and abandoned vehicles, it says dump trucks and heavy machinery are doing the work.

There are dozens of abandoned cars and structures as well as waste at the camp.

"It is paramount for public safety, and to prevent an environmental disaster, that the camps be cleared prior to a potential spring flood,” said North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, a Republican who supports the completion of the pipeline, in a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-no...-idUSKBN15F05L

I sure didn't have to look hard to find that, little starlight.

So it appears that your very own biased media outlets are telling you exactly what you want to hear. And nothing more.

And in case anybody is interested in pictures and other info about this, check out Standing Rock Fact Checker on FB.


Now you can leave this thread. I don't want to hear from you or your cronies on the issue of anything.

[Bill the Cat]

Here's an even better one...

Dakota Access Pipeline protesters have started setting fire to their camp ahead of an enforced evacuation deadline Wednesday.

[Cow Poke]

Here's an even better one...

Dakota Access Pipeline protesters have started setting fire to their camp ahead of an enforced evacuation deadline Wednesday.

But it's OK - it's a ceremonial burning with deepest respect to the Native Americans.

[Bill the Cat]

But it's OK - it's a ceremonial burning with deepest respect to the Native Americans.

A little college girl on FB tried to use that line of argument. It falls apart pretty quickly when you look up the Lakota tipi and how the Sioux nation overall respected their living structures. Burning a tipi was considered one of the highest forms of insult. It was where family records and memorials of fallen battle heroes were painted.

It's quite fascinating the significance of the overall design of the tipi was. Here is a good explanation of them:

http://www.telli.com/page/siouxtipi

[Sparko]

A little college girl on FB tried to use that line of argument. It falls apart pretty quickly when you look up the Lakota tipi and how the Sioux nation overall respected their living structures. Burning a tipi was considered one of the highest forms of insult. It was where family records and memorials of fallen battle heroes were painted.

It's quite fascinating the significance of the overall design of the tipi was. Here is a good explanation of them:

http://www.telli.com/page/siouxtipi

Just watched a news report and there were lots of burned tents (not teepees) and huge piles of trash everywhere. It was just done on purpose out of spite, thinking they were hurting the police instead of the Indians.