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Thread: Render Unto Caesar

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Render Unto Caesar

    There has got to be a better way. We Americans have gotten side tracked into letting our government be our charity workers - and they STINK at it. Not surprising - it's not what government does well.

    Mind you, I DO think correcting the political error is important and I am all for Christians being involved politically. But, it's a free country, last I looked - so I see no need to wait for political change to change ourselves.

    Churches have gotten into the same bad habit we let government get into - tossing money at problems instead of touching others. Heck, we actively discourage it - after all, some of 'those' people aren't nice, sane, clean, <insert adjective here> , or most importantly SAFE.

    We follow a Savior Who leads anywhere BUT to safety in the worldly sense. Jesus would have been a lot safer (and, from a human perspective, saner) to stay up in Heaven, not get His hands dirty and definitely not undergoing a grueling, agonizing, public execution - but that's NOT what He did. He got his hands dirty handling US - who are we not to handle each other?

    So while we're paying our taxes and grumbling about governmental failures, it's past time we got busy rolling up sleeves and doing His work - and that does not mean throwing money in the plate or clicking Paypal links to our favorite charities ONLY. It's okay - even good - to use our money to help others but it is not okay or good to use our money to salve our consciences rather than actually get our hands dirty or - horrors - actually talk to 'those' people.

  2. Amen One Bad Pig amen'd this post.
  3. #2
    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    There has got to be a better way. We Americans have gotten side tracked into letting our government be our charity workers - and they STINK at it. Not surprising - it's not what government does well.
    I have time and resources to help people in need, and yet I find myself unable to proceed or to help anyone.

    Normally I tell such a needy person that they can get Food Stamps or they can get housing at the Public shelter, or they can get onto Disability or go to the local Pantry, and there is even free clothing in places or Thrift stores, and so any physical help is already available to our society (in the USA).

    If some one wants a job and will start off at the bottom ($7.25 min wage) then that too is plenty available.

    Most people really need a spiritual salvation which the people do not want nor value it.

    It seems to me that the Gov is doing the charitable very well with the physical needs.

    I like the idea of a new spiritual awakening or revival - but I find none of that anywhere.

    So I am open to any suggestion or idea of how to do any of it in a better way.

  4. #3
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    . . . It seems to me that the Gov is doing the charitable very well with the physical needs.

    I like the idea of a new spiritual awakening or revival - but I find none of that anywhere.

    So I am open to any suggestion or idea of how to do any of it in a better way.
    The government gives a lot of physical goods away, but they are very inefficient in what they do, the money running out into non-needy pockets at a very high rate.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    The government gives a lot of physical goods away, but they are very inefficient in what they do, the money running out into non-needy pockets at a very high rate.
    I know that there is a very famous saying about God giving so much that the cup runneth over.

    The US gov has a huge abundance and it gives out so much that the Churches have much less to give out as charity.

    I do not believe there is such a thing as "non-needy" but in a rich Country like the USA then we can expect that it runneth over.

    Efficiency and inefficiency is a problem for bureaucrats and not for most people to be concerned.

    The USA spends such a huge amount on our military industrial complex and that is over running into unnecessary war after unnecessary war after unnecessary war.

    If your solution is to cut down on the poor because they are getting too much - then the poor will simply get poorer.

  6. #5
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    There has got to be a better way. We Americans have gotten side tracked into letting our government be our charity workers - and they STINK at it. Not surprising - it's not what government does well.

    Mind you, I DO think correcting the political error is important and I am all for Christians being involved politically. But, it's a free country, last I looked - so I see no need to wait for political change to change ourselves.

    Churches have gotten into the same bad habit we let government get into - tossing money at problems instead of touching others. Heck, we actively discourage it - after all, some of 'those' people aren't nice, sane, clean, <insert adjective here> , or most importantly SAFE.

    We follow a Savior Who leads anywhere BUT to safety in the worldly sense. Jesus would have been a lot safer (and, from a human perspective, saner) to stay up in Heaven, not get His hands dirty and definitely not undergoing a grueling, agonizing, public execution - but that's NOT what He did. He got his hands dirty handling US - who are we not to handle each other?

    So while we're paying our taxes and grumbling about governmental failures, it's past time we got busy rolling up sleeves and doing His work - and that does not mean throwing money in the plate or clicking Paypal links to our favorite charities ONLY. It's okay - even good - to use our money to help others but it is not okay or good to use our money to salve our consciences rather than actually get our hands dirty or - horrors - actually talk to 'those' people.
    0000000000000at.jpg

    I'm always still in trouble again

  7. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  8. #6
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    I know that there is a very famous saying about God giving so much that the cup runneth over.

    The US gov has a huge abundance and it gives out so much that the Churches have much less to give out as charity.



    Efficiency and inefficiency is a problem for bureaucrats and not for most people to be concerned.

    The USA spends such a huge amount on our military industrial complex and that is over running into unnecessary war after unnecessary war after unnecessary war.

    If your solution is to cut down on the poor because they are getting too much - then the poor will simply get poorer.
    I do not believe there is such a thing as "non-needy" but in a rich Country like the USA then we can expect that it runneth over.[/quote]
    The non-needy I was referring to are the bureaucrats who end up with a disproportionate share of the money allocated. Huge agencies that burn up more than they disperse. This is the inefficiency I despise. This is a problem for all of us who care about the needy, and I am concerned.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  9. #7
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    I try to help out fellow Christians when they need it. But, I need to do more.

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    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I try to help out fellow Christians when they need it. But, I need to do more.
    I do see this kind of attitude above as one big reason why we need the government to be in charge of public assistance programs, because many Christians have this attitude that they might help other Christians but not to help the sinners.

    The government might have lots of waste and inefficiency but the government is not to be prejudice or bias or bigoted.

  11. #9
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Cusick View Post
    I do see this kind of attitude above as one big reason why we need the government to be in charge of public assistance programs, because many Christians have this attitude that they might help other Christians but not to help the sinners.

    The government might have lots of waste and inefficiency but the government is not to be prejudice or bias or bigoted.
    We are to help our families first, then others. If we can't even take care of our families then what good are we? And that means brothers and sisters in Christ, who are just as needy as those outside of the church. I will give what I can to help my brothers and sisters in Christ first, then what is left over I can use to help those outside. This doesn't mean I will turn away from those who are in need just because they are not Christian, or don't try to preach the gospel to them. It means that if it comes down to choosing, I choose to help my family first.

    I have no problem with government assistance, at least in principal. My problem is 1. It is inefficient and wasteful and 2. It is an easy way for people to not actually care for others ("I pay my taxes, leave me alone")

  12. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  13. #10
    tWebber James Cusick's Avatar
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    Red face Reply:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    We are to help our families first, then others. If we can't even take care of our families then what good are we? And that means brothers and sisters in Christ, who are just as needy as those outside of the church. I will give what I can to help my brothers and sisters in Christ first, then what is left over I can use to help those outside. This doesn't mean I will turn away from those who are in need just because they are not Christian, or don't try to preach the gospel to them. It means that if it comes down to choosing, I choose to help my family first.

    I have no problem with government assistance, at least in principal. My problem is 1. It is inefficient and wasteful and 2. It is an easy way for people to not actually care for others ("I pay my taxes, leave me alone")
    I was really just trying to stick with the topic.

    The OP said about = Rendering unto Caesar (the government).


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