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Thread: You say Shabbat. I say Shabbos.

  1. #1
    tWebber
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    You say Shabbat. I say Shabbos.

    Ashkenazi and Sephardi Rabbis Battle Over Sabbath Hours in Elad
    Disagreements over what time the Sabbath should commence have almost led to fist fights, as the Ashkenazis demand the city observes their traditions and the Sephardis refuse to comply.
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/ashken...-elad-1.399590

    I'll start with this article when it comes to the disputes between both religious groups and also, when citing regulations. There are differences on how regulations are to be followed. And, in viewing Passover regulations considering.

    and then, adding another article -

    Ashkenazic and Sephardic Hebrew
    You say "Shabbes," and I say "Shabbat."
    By MJL Staff


    There are two different Hebrew pronunciation systems in use today: one common to Jews of Europe and one common to Jews from the Mediterranean.

    There are two different systems of Hebrew pronunciation encountered today: Ashkenazic and Sephardic. The Ashkenazic pronunciation was used by the Jews of Eastern and Central Europe, in countries such as Germany, Hungary, Poland, and Russia. The Sephardic pronunciation was used by the Jews of the Mediterranean regions, including Spain, Greece, and North Africa.

    and another article that touches on the Eruv:

    Which groups hold by the eiruv in Crown Heights? - -“I Do Not Certify or Endorse the Eruv





    2nd to the Last Article: GOT MILK?


    But wasn’t the Promised Land, the cradle of Jewish civilization, touted as the land of Milk and Honey? Indeed, but don’t take it too literally. Honey most likely meant date or fig honey, or the nectar flowing off any fruit. And milk, according to Kraemer, probably meant fat, as in the fat of the animals the Israelites would be blessed to have in their possession, and not necessarily milk itself.

    Milk as we know it would have been rare for the ancient Israelites—without pasteurization or refrigeration, it would have gone bad. Back in the day, the Israelites most likely ate a thickened, soured milk concoction, similar to labneh, the strained yogurt still popular in the Middle East and in Middle Eastern restaurants throughout the world.

    Milk itself was saved for special occasions, like, say, some angels knocking on your door. When Abraham receives the three celestial visitors in his tent, he served “some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared.” The father of the Jewish people mixing milk and meat? Prior to receiving the Torah and its commandments, this wasn’t an issue.

    Need a more mystical for the connection between Shavuot and dairy? Here goes: Moses was on Mount Sinai for 40 days. Add up the numeric value of the Hebrew letters for milk—Het, Lamed, and Bet—and you get, you guessed it, 40. Even better: The Torah, we’re told, has 70 facets, and if you add up the numeric values of the letters making up the Hebrew word for Cheese—g’vina—you get, drumroll, 70. Another name for Mount Sinai is Har Gavnunim, meaning the mountain of peaks but sharing an etymological connection with the word for cheese.

    So there.



    and, Last Article:


    The Laws of Relaxation
    Parshas Vaeschanan


    In this week’s parsha there appears a second rendition of the Ten Commandments. In this rendition there are slight variations of text from the first version that appears in parshat Yitro. All of these variations and nuances are adequately dealt with by the traditional Jewish commentators to the Torah over all of the centuries of Torah scholarship. I wish to deal here with one of these nuances as it concerns the great day of Shabat, the cornerstone of Jewish life and observance. In parshat Yitro the Torah commanded us “zachor” – remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Here in parshat Vaetchanan, the Torah tells us “shamor” – guard and observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Jewish tradition tells us that at Sinai, during the revelation of the Torah to Israel, God, so to speak, uttered the two words “zachor” and “shamor” simultaneously, a feat beyond human powers to comprehend, much less to accomplish. The obvious lesson is that there are two equal parts of the Sabbath – “zachor,” the emotional, enjoyable, spiritual side of the holy day and “shamor,” the legal, ritualistic observance of the commandments of the day regarding work.
    Last edited by Marta; 02-19-2017 at 08:22 PM.

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    40th Mojave Summer DesertBerean's Avatar
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    Lol. Thanks, Marta.

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    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Shabbat, Shabbos
    Eruv, eiruv
    Let's call the whole thing off.

  4. #4
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    Lol. Thanks, Marta.
    Not a problem, DeserBerean - someone did mention the legalities on building a Eruv within the city - Crown Heights, call it guarding the Shabbath. In citing the source,since we're posting a thread and discussing it, it might as well been according to what Jewish authorities advised everyone with in the Jewish Community.

    ******

    Regarding "Got Milk?" article:


    Also, I think someone else mentions "Exodus 23:19—boiling a kid in its mother's milk and Jewish law" - Milk and meat in Jewish law (As meat is taking, and milk is giving.)

    Since the Book of Genesis refers to young goats by the Hebrew phrase g'di izim,[18] but the prohibition against boiling a kid... only uses the term g'di (גדי), usually if you didn't specify it meant a goat, but it could be a generic term for any young. Thus elsewhere it might specify g'di izim -- "a young goat."

    So that gives us "don't cook a young animal in its mother's milk."

    Why the thing about "mother's"? Hebrew lesson once again, the language is written without vowels. "Chalav" is milk; "chelev" is fat. So by adding in the phrase "mother's" we know it's talking about cooking it in milk, not fat.

    We believe that an Oral Tradition was given along with the Bible as we know it, which meant that this verse was intended as:

    Don't cook the meat of any ruminant animal in the milk of any ruminant animal. Biblically, there is no problem with mixing milk with either meat or poultry. The division of food into the three groups (meat, dairy,
    pareve) is Rabbinical. All that the Tanakh forbids is boiling meat in the milk of its own mother. If you want to be very stringent, this *could* be interpreted to mean that you cannot boil meat with milk if
    they are from the same kind of animal.



    Sometimes you have to get into these discussions "explaining" the law (Halacha/halakha) - and there's no better way to explain it then to bring in articles from good sources. There's another issue - Ashkenazi and Sephardi and how each interprets. Where the Ashkenazi Jews come from Europe countries, the Sephardi come from Arab territories. Funny as it may sound - there are "major" differences. Each views Shabbath in a different light - they have the foundations of the law but each has a way of celebrating it and approaching it to Jewish law. There are those who are more strict with its regulations.

  5. #5
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    Shabbat, Shabbos
    Eruv, eiruv
    Let's call the whole thing off.
    But oh, if we call the whole thing off then we must part
    and oh, if we ever part, then that might break my heart




  6. #6
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    Lol. Thanks, Marta.
    Since we have different ways of saying Shabbath and spelling it - the meaning is also, great to know:

    In this week’s portion, we have “Shamor,” which also maybe you’ve heard: the word “Shomrim,” those are people who watch over someone after they’ve died, so what is “Shamor?” Do you know? “Guard” or “keep” or “protect” or “watch over.”

    “Shamor” refers to all the commandments around Shabbat that you have to guard against, meaning all the negative commandments. So “Shamor” refers to all the negative commandments, and “zachor” refers to all the positive commandments, all the things that help you remember, like lighting the candles, sanctifying the wine, taking a rest. So both of those commandments come together.

    Point: Shamor (Shin) is the same as first letter of the word Shlomo - and the Shlomo, Hebrew form of SOLOMON - Peace!

    And so we say, Shalom Shabbath.........“Shabbat shalom,” which means “Sabbath [of] peace.”.


    The traditional Yiddish greeting of Ashkenazi Jews is “Gut Shabbos,” which means “Good Sabbath.” This greeting is used in place of both “hello” and “goodbye.” However, when used in parting, it is modified slightly to “Ah gutten Shabbos.” If you cannot remember the Yiddish nuances, just say “Good Shabbos” every time, and you’ll be in very good company.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    Shabbat, Shabbos
    Eruv, eiruv
    Let's call the whole thing off.
    Hope this picture comes through for a Sefardi table - One of my favorites is ..... Mediterranean Hashweh Rice with Beef, Nuts and Raisins -
    Attachment 20995 Attachment 20996

    There a restaurant where I live that fixes this dish and it's great! Not specifically for Shabbath - but simply, it’s a lamb or beef and rice dish that is quite familiar in the Middle East and parts of the Mediterranean. Places like Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Morocco, Turkey

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    40th Mojave Summer DesertBerean's Avatar
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    I take it this is Orthodox only? Not reformed or Hassidic (sp)?

  9. #9
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    I take it this is Orthodox only? Not reformed or Hassidic (sp)?
    Ashkenaz Jews (typically from Eastern Europe) - pronounced the TAV without a dagest as "S", and the tend to put the accent on the first syllable of a two syllable word. Their typical Sabbath greeting is "Good Shabbos".

    Sephardic Jews (Israeli, Spanish, etc...) - pronounced always pronounce a TAV like a "T", whether it has a dagesh or not. Their typical Sabbath greeting is "Shabbat Shalom".

    *********

    Article:

    I say “Shabbat,” You say “Shabbos…” But Let’s Not Call Anything Off!

    Know that most of these come from the two pronunciations of Hebrew. The first word in each pair above is pronounced according to the Ashkenazi or Yiddish form from Eastern Europe. (Yarmulke is actually a Yiddish word.) The second word is pronounced according to the Sephardic pronunciation, as Hebrew is pronounced on the street in Israel today. Both are correct.


    One Jew wears a yarmulke, and another a kippah. [Little hat.]

    One keeps Shabbos, another keeps Shabbat. [Sabbath]

    One reads from the TOYrah, another reveres the ToRAH. [Torah]

    One prays to AdonOI and the other to AdoNYE. [Adonai, substitute for the Name we don’t speak, sometimes pronounced HaSHEM.]

    One goes to synagogue at Bays SHOlom, the other at Bayt ShaLOM. [name of a synagogue, meaning “House of Peace”]

    One celebrates the Yuntiff, the other a Yom Tov. [holiday]

    *********************************

    Sephardic, Ashkenazic, Mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews



    These are variations in the words - however, in the law, Yes, to answer your questions, the beliefs of Sephardic Judaism are basically in accord with those of Orthodox Judaism, though Sephardic interpretations of halakhah (Jewish Law) are somewhat different from Ashkenazic ones. Informational wise, the 'Sephardic' technically indicates adherence to a set of religious and cultural traditions that are different from those of European Jews.. Middle Eastern/North African descent, 'Mizrahi' is a more technically appropriate term for a Jew whose recent ancestors are eastern.
    Last edited by Marta; 02-21-2017 at 03:23 PM.

  10. #10
    40th Mojave Summer DesertBerean's Avatar
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    Lol. Hasn't changed much since the Old Testament.

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