Arguments plz

[JAYMZ]

In the long run, whatever we may speculate on subjects which are based upon points of interest and which have no affect on salvation (for instance, we know we must be baptized, we must receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, etc; so there is little room for speculation), o

" must be baptized. "

Are we saved by trusting in who Christ is and what he did for us.........or by getting wet ?

Think about why a evangelical christian would never make a statement like the one above.
When we say that we are saved by Gods grace, through faith in Christ we really mean it. The Holy Spirit is given by God to those who profess true saving faith. Baptism is the first act a faithful servant of Christ would do. Good works is also sign and not the means of salvation.


Jo, is your faith in Christ TRULY the basis of your salvation or is it faith in the ordinances of the LDS or the truthfulness of the BoM ?

[jo7241974]

" must be baptized. "

Are we saved by trusting in who Christ is and what he did for us.........or by getting wet ?

Think about why a evangelical christian would never make a statement like the one above.
When we say that we are saved by Gods grace, through faith in Christ we really mean it. The Holy Spirit is given by God to those who profess true saving faith. Baptism is the first act a faithful servant of Christ would do. Good works is also sign and not the means of salvation.


Jo, is your faith in Christ TRULY the basis of your salvation or is it faith in the ordinances of the LDS or the truthfulness of the BoM ?

I am going by what Christ said in the Bible.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It is Christ's Atonement which saves us from our sins. We must have faith that Jesus is the Christ in order to avail ourselves of this gift. However, the ordinance of baptism is required just as Christ taught.

God bless,

jo

[JAYMZ]

I am going by what Christ said in the Bible.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It is Christ's Atonement which saves us from our sins. We must have faith that Jesus is the Christ in order to avail ourselves of this gift. However, the ordinance of baptism is required just as Christ taught.

God bless,

jo

Jo, are you sure you have the proper context for that verse ?

If you take " water " to be referring to baptism then that verse makes the baptism first THEN being born again by faith in Christ the second. When really its the reverse.

But more importantly...............read John 3:5 in the whole context of John 3:3-7.

In John 3:3-7 Jesus is making clear distinctions about what he means. He is contrasting being born from a womb ( water ) and being born of the spirit. Nicodemus is asking Jesus clearly " how can a man be born again when hes old, I cant enter the womb a second time can I ? Then Jesus says " flesh gives birth to flesh ( water ) " but " spirit gives birth to spirit. " So in context, water is referring to being born from a womb and amniotic fluid.

So you cant use this verse to justify your position on baptism.

[Cow Poke]

How do you get voluntary from "every knee will bow?" Also, God has dominion over the devil, and by extension everything the devil has dominion over.

Romans 14:11 (New International Version)
11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' "

Sounds pretty definite, eh?

Romans 14:11 (Darby Translation)
11For it is written, *I* live, saith [the] Lord, that to me shall bow every knee, and every tongue shall confess to God.

And a "shall"...


Romans 14:11 (Young's Literal Translation)
11for it hath been written, `I live! saith the Lord -- to Me bow shall every knee, and every tongue shall confess to God;'

Even moreso!

Romans 14:11 (Wycliffe New Testament)[
11 For it is written, I live, saith the Lord, for to me each knee shall be bowed, and each tongue shall acknowledge to God.

No "voluntary" there...

There's lots more where those came from!

[Griggsy]

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[RumTumTugger]

Um?

THe LDS are like Gatsby using your brain the way God intended it to be used hampers getting to the Truth of who God is. you have to in the case of Gatsby use a non existent 3rd eye in the case of LDS get heartburn.

[nrajeff]

THe LDS are like Gatsby using your brain the way God intended it to be used....

Thanks for the complement!

[onefour1]

A few of the teachings that I cannot accept of those christian sects that believe them are:

1. Exnihilo Creation
2. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one being yet 3 persons
3. Jesus no longer has a body of flesh and bones.

[Cerebrum123]

Thanks for the complement!

Um, that is very dishonest to quote like that Jeff.

A few of the teachings that I cannot accept of those christian sects that believe them are:

1. Exnihilo Creation
2. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one being yet 3 persons
3. Jesus no longer has a body of flesh and bones.

Ok, what is wrong with #1 on your list? As for 2, we have ample evidence of this in both the NT and OT, and I am willing to go over it if you are, but it might be better to start a new thread. As for #3, I don't know of anyone who teaches this. In fact, AFAIK, there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Jesus no longer has a physical body, but even if there was, what is wrong with that as long as the Bible truly taught it?

[Sparko]

A few of the teachings that I cannot accept of those christian sects that believe them are:

1. Exnihilo Creation
2. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one being yet 3 persons
3. Jesus no longer has a body of flesh and bones.

No Christian believes number 3. It is a central doctrine of Christianity that Jesus rose bodily and is now in heaven in his glorified body.

[nrajeff]

Um, that is very dishonest to quote like that Jeff.

You may be right for once. It was wrong of me to say "Thanks for the complement" when the word I should have used was "compliment." I need to type a little slower.

... In fact, AFAIK, there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Jesus no longer has a physical body, but even if there was, what is wrong with that as long as the Bible truly taught it?

That sort of is logical, I guess, like if a pro-LDS person were to say "What's wrong with the idea of monolatry being the correct Christian theology as long as the New Testament truly teaches it?"

[One Bad Pig]

A few of the teachings that I cannot accept of those christian sects that believe them are:

1. Exnihilo Creation

Why can't you accept this?

2. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one being yet 3 persons

I wouldn't describe the Trinity as one being, though I'm not quite sure why. It's not a typical description of the Trinity. The usual way to summarize the Trinity is "one God in three persons."

3. Jesus no longer has a body of flesh and bones.

No orthodox Christian believes this, though some gnostic sects may have.

[Cerebrum123]

You may be right for once. It was wrong of me to say "Thanks for the complement" when the word I should have used was "compliment." I need to type a little slower.

Since when does "dishonest' equal "spelling mistake"? The above was not a compliment, Rum Tum Tugger was saying that you are NOT using your brain the way that God intended it, because it hampers LDS "faith".

That sort of is logical, I guess, like if a pro-LDS person were to say "What's wrong with the idea of monolatry being the correct Christian theology as long as the New Testament truly teaches it?"

No one has shown that the NT teaches is.

[nrajeff]

I wouldn't describe the Trinity as one being, though I'm not quite sure why. It's not a typical description of the Trinity.

It is typical in the other 2 anti-LDS forums I visit. "Three Persons (subsisting) in one Being" or "One being comprised of 3 Persons" is stated a lot.

[nrajeff]

Since when does "dishonest' equal "spelling mistake"?

Maybe I was "being sarcastic."

The above was not a compliment

It wasn't? You mean it was an INSULT? Goodness gracious, what has this forum come to?

Rum Tum Tugger was saying that you are NOT using your brain the way that God intended it, because it hampers LDS "faith".

You got that from the cryptic "THe LDS are like Gatsby using your brain the way God intended it to be used hampers getting to the Truth of who God is. you have to in the case of Gatsby use a non existent 3rd eye in the case of LDS get heartburn." ?

Ever thought of a career at the NSA?

To me, the phrase "using your brain the way God intended it to be used hampers getting to the Truth of who God is" seems to mean the opposite of what your "exegesis" produced.