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Don the Con's endless lies

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  • #31
    It also worth noting that criminologists around the world have generally found that immigrants have lower crime rates than the general population. Some reasons for this are obvious: (a) immigrants are generally hand-picked by immigration authorities and thus are the 'best' people among those wanting to come to the country; (b) immigrants are those who are so strongly motivated to improve their lives that they were willing to leave behind their country and friends to get a better life for themselves, which is not the kind of person who engages in crime; (c) immigrants much more than existing residents of Western countries, appreciate and value the opportunities that living in a good country provides - they know first-hand what it's like to live in a bad and crime-filled country and wanted no part of it and they don't want to waste the opportunity they now have; (d) the threat of deportation often hangs over their heads if they are caught committing a crime within a certain number of years of immigrating (or ever, if they are illegal immigrants).

    Pew Research gives this graph:

    It shows that first-generation immigrants commit crime at only about 2/3rd the rate of native-born people. But those immigrants' children generally have sufficiently assimilated to commit crime at pretty much the same rate as natives.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      It also worth noting that criminologists around the world have generally found that immigrants have lower crime rates than the general population. Some reasons for this are obvious: (a) immigrants are generally hand-picked by immigration authorities and thus are the 'best' people among those wanting to come to the country; (b) immigrants are those who are so strongly motivated to improve their lives that they were willing to leave behind their country and friends to get a better life for themselves, which is not the kind of person who engages in crime; (c) immigrants much more than existing residents of Western countries, appreciate and value the opportunities that living in a good country provides - they know first-hand what it's like to live in a bad and crime-filled country and wanted no part of it and they don't want to waste the opportunity they now have; (d) the threat of deportation often hangs over their heads if they are caught committing a crime within a certain number of years of immigrating (or ever, if they are illegal immigrants).

      Pew Research gives this graph:

      It shows that first-generation immigrants commit crime at only about 2/3rd the rate of native-born people. But those immigrants' children generally have sufficiently assimilated to commit crime at pretty much the same rate as natives.
      Just want to point out, speaking as a legal immigrant, that illegal immigrants are constantly committing a crime by simply being in the country they are in illegally. So to be accurate with your chart from Pew research (which doesn't show illegal immigrants) the crime rate for illegal immigrants would stay at a constant 100%.
      Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
      1 Corinthians 16:13

      "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
      -Ben Witherington III

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
        Just want to point out, speaking as a legal immigrant, that illegal immigrants are constantly committing a crime by simply being in the country they are in illegally. So to be accurate with your chart from Pew research (which doesn't show illegal immigrants) the crime rate for illegal immigrants would stay at a constant 100%.
        The left consistently ignores the fact that the problem is with illegal immigration and not immigration in general.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          The left consistently ignores the fact that the problem is with illegal immigration and not immigration in general.
          That is just false. The right spat the dummy with regard to accepting refugees, which would be legal immigration.
          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Why do you say that? I wasn't being literal about sliced bread.
            Just a little humor.

            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Why do you think that sounds like a justification for voting for Trump in the past? In the present, I see a whole lot of petulance and emotion and partisanship from the other side, slow rolling nominees just because, deliberate leaking of secret information just to make one's ideological opponent look bad.... I'm seeing unprecedented levels of rank hypocrisy and poor losing from the Democrat side, and that's all in the present.
            I see the things you describe as reactions to Trump, not particularly mature or constructive, but not alternatives to Trump. Other Republican candidates and then Clinton were alternatives to Trump, but that's all in the past.
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
              That is just false. The right spat the dummy with regard to accepting refugees, which would be legal immigration.
              That's and entirely different issue.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Yes, but if you look at Dimbulb's links, you'll find that liberals have their own problems with the truth. For instance, Trump said that Obama wanted to let 200,000 refugees into the country. The Washington Post says, "That's a lie! Obama only planned to let in 185,000 refugees! Four Pinocchios!" Really? At worst you could accuse Trump of being imprecise, but declaring it a flat out lie? Give me a break. Or how about Trump's estimate that the border wall will cost between $8 million to $12 million. The Washington Post says, "That's a lie! We think it will cost more! Four Pinocchios!" Again, really? In a similar vein, there's Trump's claim that he could eliminate the $19 trillion debt in 8-years. The Washington Post says, "That's a lie! We don't think he can! Four Pinocchios!" Once again, really? Just because you happen to disagree with a statement doesn't make it a lie. And one from the Politico, Trump says that excessive regulations cost our economy $2 trillion a year. Politico says, "That's a lie! We found some analysts who 'question' the methodology of the report that Trump takes that figure from!" Yeah, OK. One more, Trump says that Hillary planned to raise taxes. The Politico says, "That's a lie! Hillary is only raising taxes on the 'wealthy'!" Which is say that Trump was telling the truth, but the Politico still calls it a lie.

                And on it goes. People who have such a casual relationship with the truth have no business calling Donald Trump a liar.
                Why doesn't one moderate republican among you guys get together with a moderate democrat and start your own neutral fact-checker? Both could simply take the claims of their respective sides and choose the wheat among the chaff, discuss it together, and publish.
                We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
                - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
                In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
                Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Bisto View Post
                  Why doesn't one moderate republican among you guys get together with a moderate democrat and start your own neutral fact-checker? Both could simply take the claims of their respective sides and choose the wheat among the chaff, discuss it together, and publish.
                  From what I can tell the USA doesn't have moderate republicans or moderate democrats. I think they burnt the Center down a long time ago and salted the earth where it was.
                  Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
                  1 Corinthians 16:13

                  "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
                  -Ben Witherington III

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                    From what I can tell the USA doesn't have moderate republicans or moderate democrats. I think they burnt the Center down a long time ago and salted the earth where it was.
                    I heard an interesting explanation recently that this is a result of gerrymandering. In the US political parties control where the district boundaries are drawn. So they use computer programs to churn through all their voter data and draw lines around their districts creatively in order to make sure they have safe seats. Here is one such work of art, the 4th congressional district in Illinois:



                    As a result of extensive gerrymandering across the country by both parties, only about a dozen seats in congress are really 'swing-seats' between the parties, the rest are safely locked up as definitely democrat or definitely republican. But the consequence of this is that the politicians don't need to position themselves in the center to make sure they get the independent centrist swing-votes, and instead their main rivals are in the primaries, and the politicians need to swing far to the left or the right to try and make sure their base votes for them and doesn't unseat them in the primary.

                    So centrist politicians have either been unseated over the last couple of decades, or career politicians have been forced to move out of the center and do everything they can to pretend to be strongly partisan and appease their base. e.g. Mitch McConnell who's married to an immigrant and used to advocate for pro-immigration policies now pretends he's mostly fine with Trump's anti-immigration policies.

                    This is why I think US states should switch to a multi-seat STV voting system (aka 'fairvote'): Merge the districts together into ~5 district chunks so you mostly don't have arbitrary boundaries, and everyone in the state ranks as many candidates as they feel like from #1 to #n on their voting paper, and then the state puts the 5 most popular candidates into congress as their elected congressmen (based on the STV voting math algorithm). That would give much greater proportionality in representation, and could be enacted by individual states at the state level without a federal constitutional change.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                      From what I can tell the USA doesn't have moderate republicans or moderate democrats. I think they burnt the Center down a long time ago and salted the earth where it was.
                      We are a vanishing breed, that is true, but there are still many of us who try to combine values espoused by both parties.
                      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
                        From what I can tell the USA doesn't have moderate republicans or moderate democrats. I think they burnt the Center down a long time ago and salted the earth where it was.
                        There are some around, but they tend to be drowned out by those with less moderate views. A wave of centrist democrats won elections in the 2006 election cycle, although not all of them have managed to hold their seat up to the present.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          There are some around, but they tend to be drowned out by those with less moderate views. A wave of centrist democrats won elections in the 2006 election cycle, although not all of them have managed to hold their seat up to the present.
                          According to 538's tracking of votes in congress, there are 5 democratic senators and 2 democratic house members who have voted for Trump-bills more than 50% of the time. The least Trump-supportive of the Republican senators has voted for Trump-bills 84% percent of the time and there are only 4 republican house members who have supported Trump's bills less than that (the lowest at 64% support). So, so far, the democrats have been crossing the aisle a lot more than the Republicans in this administration.

                          GOP senators like Cruz, Rubio, McCain, Lindsey Graham, who have at times been pretty anti-Trump in rhetoric have voted pretty much down the line to support Trump's plays. The vast majority of Republicans have voted 100% in support of Trump's bills and appointments, while zero Democrats in the Senate have voted against him on everything.
                          Last edited by Starlight; 02-23-2017, 09:21 PM.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                            We are a vanishing breed, that is true, but there are still many of us who try to combine values espoused by both parties.
                            A valiant effort but you must be getting lonely. This is where a generous dose of 12 year old Chivas Regal can help.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              A valiant effort but you must be getting lonely. This is where a generous dose of 12 year old Chivas Regal can help.
                              Not my cup of tea. Would much rather have a dram of 5-year-old Bruichladdich Octomore, but it is way too strong (and too expensive) to drink a 'generous dose'. I was given a bottle for Christmas, however, and if you're ever in the States, I'll let you try it.
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                According to 538's tracking of votes in congress, there are 5 democratic senators and 2 democratic house members who have voted for Trump-bills more than 50% of the time. The least Trump-supportive of the Republican senators has voted for Trump-bills 84% percent of the time and there are only 4 republican house members who have supported Trump's bills less than that (the lowest at 64% support). So, so far, the democrats have been crossing the aisle a lot more than the Republicans in this administration.

                                GOP senators like Cruz, Rubio, McCain, Lindsey Graham, who have at times been pretty anti-Trump in rhetoric have voted pretty much down the line to support Trump's plays. The vast majority of Republicans have voted 100% in support of Trump's bills and appointments, while zero Democrats in the Senate have voted against him on everything.
                                So, the President sponsors bills now?
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                - Stephen R. Donaldson

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