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New solar system near by with 7 planets, three habitable.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
    “Educated guesses” is perhaps more accurate.



    The essential condition is the existence of water and recent observations by planetary probes and telescopes have shown that water is common throughout our solar system and our own galaxy. And, given that our galaxy contains c. 400 billion stars (i.e. suns) and that many of them have orbiting planets it’s, probable that life has evolved on some of them. And given the 200 billion + galaxies (over and above our own galaxy)...each with around the same number of stars...it’s highly unlikely that we’re unique on the basis of sheer numbers alone.
    still just "speculation" with absolutely no evidence that water is all that is needed to have life. We have found water everywhere but life only on Earth. maybe that should tell us something? All the evidence we have says we are unique in the universe. Anything else is not based on actual evidence but only guesses and arguments from incredulity (there are so many stars there MUST be life!)

    It is not an educated guess because an educated guess would be based on evidence. We have none. Just speculation.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Tassman View Post

      Yes “so far”. But perhaps the planned 2020 Mars Rover expedition will be successful in its search for signs of past microbial life. This would be conclusive evidence of life elsewhere and then you’ll have to drop your mantra of “it’s all speculation”.
      duh.... so basically you are saying that it IS just speculation unless we actually find evidence of extraterrestrial life, then it won't be speculation.

      In other words it is only speculation. Not an educated guess.

      When we DO have evidence then it won't be speculation. Brilliant.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Bisto View Post
        I understand that. I'm mostly TE myself. My question was different.

        Can the Baha'i god perform miracles if he chooses to? And a different question, does he / has he, that you know of?
        This is a bit off topic. Yes, in the Baha'i Faith Miracles are possible, and apparent miracles have been witnessed by many in the life of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, but they can be a distraction and deceptive as to the reality of Revelation, and only a witness of faith, and not proof of Revelation from God.

        Source: http://bahai-library.com/books/miracles/bahai.html


        Bahá’í Writings teach us that if we wish to discover whether any one of the Messengers was in reality a Prophet of God, we must investigate the facts surrounding His life and history. The "…first point of our investigation will be the education He bestowed upon mankind. If He has been an Educator, if He has really trained a nation or people, causing it to rise from the lowest depths of ignorance to the highest station of knowledge, then we are sure that He was a Prophet. This is a plain and clear method of procedure, proof that is irrefutable. We do not need to seek after other proofs. We do not need to mention miracles, saying that out of rock water gushed forth, for such miracles and statements may be denied and refused by those who hear them."1

        The miracles of Bahá’u’lláh may not be mentioned for the above reasons. Also they may be described by some as traditions that are liable to both truth and error. Though if we wish to mention the supernatural acts of Bahá’u’lláh, they are numerous. Many Bahá’ís, after the way of Islam, have also related the great miracles that they had, with their own eyes, seen Bahá’u’lláh perform, and the marvels they had heard.2 They "…are acknowledged in the Orient, and even by some non-Bahá’ís. But these narratives are not decisive proofs and evidences to all; the hearer might perhaps say that this account may not be in accordance with what occurred, for it is known that other sects recount miracles performed by their founders. For instance, the followers of Brahmanism relate miracles. From what evidence may we know that those are false and that these are true? If these are fables, the others also are fables; if these are generally accepted, so also the others are generally accepted. Consequently, these accounts are not satisfactory proofs. Yes, miracles are proofs for the eyewitness only, and even he may regard them not as a miracle but as an enchantment."3 Further, extraordinary feats have also been related of some conjurers.

        The purpose is not to deny such miracles; but to point out that they do not constitute decisive proofs, and that they have an inner significance. The miracles of Bahá’u’lláh will be acknowledged if there is fairness in the world; but there are some people who, even if all the proof in the world be adduced before them, still will not judge justly!

        © Copyright Original Source



        Creation itself does not appear miraculous in any way, and need not be, and there is no evidence that it was.

        And a third question, different in nature from the previous two: the answers you give me, are they common among the Baha'i, or are they your personal convictions as distinguished from what an "average Baha'i" would answer? It is my understanding that you have lived in this religion for quite some time, so hopefully you have become self-aware enough in it to know the places where you stand with the majority of your religion, and the places where you don't. I think it's important to know whether I'm learning about you or about you and most other Baha'i, if you know that answer.
        The concept of the 'Harmony of Science and Religion' is fundamental, and scripture is clear and specific, the writings of all religions must be understood by the light of the evolving knowledge of science concerning the physical nature of our physical existence. There may be debate and controversy concerning some writings about science and our physical existence, but the bottom is the highlighted above according to Baha'i scripture.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Bisto View Post
          I understand that. I'm mostly TE myself. My question was different.

          Can the Baha'i god perform miracles if he chooses to? And a different question, does he / has he, that you know of?

          And a third question, different in nature from the previous two: the answers you give me, are they common among the Baha'i, or are they your personal convictions as distinguished from what an "average Baha'i" would answer? It is my understanding that you have lived in this religion for quite some time, so hopefully you have become self-aware enough in it to know the places where you stand with the majority of your religion, and the places where you don't. I think it's important to know whether I'm learning about you or about you and most other Baha'i, if you know that answer.
          If I were you I would not depend on anything shunyadragon has to say on the subject. He's demonstrated time and again that he has at best a tenuous grasp on Baha'i teachings. If you need to ask a Baha'i something you're best to look for Sen Mcglinn who occasionally posts here (but not very often), or maybe just ask your questions on an actual Baha'i forum.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            still just "speculation" with absolutely no evidence that water is all that is needed to have life.
            No, it’s not “all that’s needed to have life”, but life as we know it is impossible without it.

            We have found water everywhere but life only on Earth. maybe that should tell us something?
            What it tells us is that of the thousands of potentially suitable places in the universe we’ve so far only begun to explore the planets and moons in our own solar system. There are four places in our solar system alone where microbial life is possible.

            http://www.livescience.com/47246-ali...andidates.html

            All the evidence we have says we are unique in the universe.

            Anything else is not based on actual evidence but only guesses and arguments from incredulity (there are so many stars there MUST be life!)
            The evidence we have says that life has arisen naturally on planet Earth therefore it is reasonable to assume that it has arisen elsewhere where there are suitable conditions.

            It is not an educated guess because an educated guess would be based on evidence. We have none. Just speculation.
            We will see. You should be excited at the prospect, not fearfully anticipating what such knowledge will do to your fundy narrative.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              No, it’s not “all that’s needed to have life”, but life as we know it is impossible without it.



              What it tells us is that of the thousands of potentially suitable places in the universe we’ve so far only begun to explore the planets and moons in our own solar system. There are four places in our solar system alone where microbial life is possible.

              http://www.livescience.com/47246-ali...andidates.html



              The evidence we have says that life has arisen naturally on planet Earth therefore it is reasonable to assume that it has arisen elsewhere where there are suitable conditions.



              We will see. You should be excited at the prospect, not fearfully anticipating what such knowledge will do to your fundy narrative.
              fearful? LOL. I have no problem with life elsewhere in the universe, in fact, I hope we do find it someday. I am just saying that scientists are being overly optimistic with absolutely no evidence. Personally I believe God created such a large universe for a purpose. He could have created life everywhere and I hope he did. But without actual evidence we just dont know. yet.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                No, it’s not “all that’s needed to have life”, but life as we know it is impossible without it.
                Thank you for admitting that, at least.
                What it tells us is that of the thousands of potentially suitable places in the universe we’ve so far only begun to explore the planets and moons in our own solar system. There are four places in our solar system alone where microbial life is possible.

                http://www.livescience.com/47246-ali...andidates.html
                Make that potentially possible based on our current understanding.
                The evidence we have says that life has arisen naturally on planet Earth therefore it is reasonable to assume that it has arisen elsewhere where there are suitable conditions.
                That would be great if we actually understood what are suitable conditions. Scientists have been attempting to recreate suitable conditions for decades, but have yet to come close to success. Until we have a sample set of at least two, we're just spitballing.
                We will see. You should be excited at the prospect, not fearfully anticipating what such knowledge will do to your fundy narrative.
                I am excited. I'd be more than happy to sign up for an exploratory mission elsewhere if we had the means to go. Can you acknowledge that, or are you afraid of what it will do to your anti-Christian narrative?
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #38
                  Like on abortion, Tassman has to try to characterize this as a religious/fundy issue in order to preserve his viewpoint because he has no legitimate argument and just wants to disagree. another strawman.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    . . . I am just saying that scientists are being overly optimistic with absolutely no evidence. . .
                    As I said before:
                    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                    Yes, by 'habitable" planets they mean planets that "could sustain oceans."
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      fearful? LOL. I have no problem with life elsewhere in the universe, in fact, I hope we do find it someday. I am just saying that scientists are being overly optimistic with absolutely no evidence. Personally I believe God created such a large universe for a purpose. He could have created life everywhere and I hope he did. But without actual evidence we just dont know. yet.
                      I think you are being "overly optimistic with absolutely no evidence" that "God created such a large universe for a purpose".
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Thank you for admitting that, at least.
                        I never said anything other than that.

                        Make that potentially possible based on our current understanding.
                        That’s what "potentially" means dummy...”possible but not yet actually” - Dictionary.com. But full marks for trying to reduce the significance of the discovery with your "potentially possible".

                        That would be great if we actually understood what are suitable conditions. Scientists have been attempting to recreate suitable conditions for decades, but have yet to come close to success. Until we have a sample set of at least two, we're just spitballing.
                        Well no, science is a bit further ahead than that. It actually has several plausible theories re the origin of life on Earth.

                        http://www.livescience.com/1804-grea...ise-earth.html

                        But fear not. When the time comes you can always deny it, like the fundies do re the fact of Evolution.

                        I am excited. I'd be more than happy to sign up for an exploratory mission elsewhere if we had the means to go. Can you acknowledge that, or are you afraid of what it will do to your anti-Christian narrative?
                        Why, do you expect Jesus will be out there somewhere?
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          I never said anything other than that.
                          You initially said that water was THE essential condition for life - which is indeed "other than that." Did you forget, hope I wouldn't notice the difference, or do you pretend there is no difference?
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            You initially said that water was THE essential condition for life - which is indeed "other than that." Did you forget, hope I wouldn't notice the difference, or do you pretend there is no difference?
                            Not good with words are you!

                            Yes it is the essential ingredient for carbon-based life forms, however it's obviously not the only only requirement; I didn't say it was. But, given that water has been discovered throughout our solar system, further investigation for life is warranted...starting with Mars in three years time.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Trumped.jpg
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]21136[/ATTACH]
                                Wouldn't it be easier to send DJT to one of the potentially inhabitable planets?
                                Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                                MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                                MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                                seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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