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Alternatives to Methodological Naturalism

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  • Alternatives to Methodological Naturalism

    Abstracts for this weekend's on-line conference are now available here.

    Some of the usual suspects are presenting, including Walter ReMine.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

  • #2
    I see we have an astronomer (Cordova) trying to lecture biologists about junk DNA. The average biologist handles that topic way too poorly - i can only speculate how bad that's going to be.
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

    Comment


    • #3
      Interesting. I'll look through these, later.
      "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
      --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
        I see we have an astronomer (Cordova) trying to lecture biologists about junk DNA. The average biologist handles that topic way too poorly - i can only speculate how bad that's going to be.
        He also has a habit of lecturing math/comp sci people about computer simulations of evolutionary algorithms to solve mathematical problems - which goes about as well as you'd expect.
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Just spotted this:
          Originally posted by an abstract
          The Floral Formula is a mathematical representation of the flower structures based on the calyx, corolla, androecium, and gynoecium. It can also include relative location, symmetry, and number of individual parts. For example, the simple formula: K5 Cz5 A5 G3 represents a bisexual plant with 5 sepals, 5 zygomorphic petals, 5 stamens, and a pistil of 3 united carpels with superior ovary and describes the Violet Kind. The hypothesis is that each unique Floral Formula should represent a separate Created Kind.
          Very interesting.

          Such a shame that many cultivated flowers have differing numbers of petals from their wild rootstock. Apparently ornamental geraniums and wild geraniums are different created kinds. Who knew that horticulturalists were so powerful?
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Roy View Post
            Abstracts for this weekend's on-line conference are now available here.

            Some of the usual suspects are presenting, including Walter ReMine.
            Looking at this so far I do not consider this approach an alternative to Methodological Naturalism. It is more looking at different ways of approaching and solving the problems of evolution and the philsoophical question of purpose(?). If it goes too much toward the question of why it will drop off the edge of the map.

            I smell blue smoke and mirrors of alchemy and Eastern Mysticism.

            Not impressed . . .
            Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-23-2017, 04:09 PM.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting to find Remine's Message Theory abstract noting "that the ID movement is uncomfortable with any ID theory that would make predictions."
              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

              Comment


              • #8
                Problem here right off on how they Define Methodological Naturalism that could push you easily off the edge of the map of science.

                Source: http://www.am-nat.org/site/file/2017/02/AbstractList.pdf



                Methodological Naturalism (MN) is a materialistic/atheistic assumption that only material causes have operated in the natural world and that teleological conceptions of nature are invalid. It has unfortunately become an unstated doctrine used prophylactically by modern institutions of science. Use of the assumption may be justified in empirical sciences such as physics and chemistry. However, problems arise when it is used without mention and justification in historical and behavioral sciences that use abductive reasoning to seek an inference to the best of competing hypotheses that impact theistic and non-theistic religious worldviews.

                © Copyright Original Source

                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
                  Interesting to find Remine's Message Theory abstract noting "that the ID movement is uncomfortable with any ID theory that would make predictions."
                  Well if it is not science how can it make predictions?
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Problem here right off on how they Define Methodological Naturalism that could push you easily off the edge of the map of science.

                    Source: http://www.am-nat.org/site/file/2017/02/AbstractList.pdf



                    Methodological Naturalism (MN) is a materialistic/atheistic assumption that only material causes have operated in the natural world and that teleological conceptions of nature are invalid. It has unfortunately become an unstated doctrine used prophylactically by modern institutions of science. Use of the assumption may be justified in empirical sciences such as physics and chemistry. However, problems arise when it is used without mention and justification in historical and behavioral sciences that use abductive reasoning to seek an inference to the best of competing hypotheses that impact theistic and non-theistic religious worldviews.

                    © Copyright Original Source

                    Their definition is not methodological naturalism, but metaphysical naturalism.
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      Problem here right off on how they Define Methodological Naturalism that could push you easily off the edge of the map of science.

                      Source: http://www.am-nat.org/site/file/2017/02/AbstractList.pdf



                      Methodological Naturalism (MN) is a materialistic/atheistic assumption that only material causes have operated in the natural world and that teleological conceptions of nature are invalid. It has unfortunately become an unstated doctrine used prophylactically by modern institutions of science. Use of the assumption may be justified in empirical sciences such as physics and chemistry. However, problems arise when it is used without mention and justification in historical and behavioral sciences that use abductive reasoning to seek an inference to the best of competing hypotheses that impact theistic and non-theistic religious worldviews.

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      I rarely agree with Shuny, but here I agree with him completely. This definition is horrible. Its authors don't understand either history or philosophy.
                      "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        Well if it is not science how can it make predictions?
                        And that's the crux of it. They seem to want to be able to call their work "science," without actually having to do the things which are associated with science. They're basically trying to revert natural philosophy by about 500 years.
                        "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                        --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                          Their definition is not methodological naturalism, but metaphysical naturalism.
                          True, and that is the problem.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wonder how they define metaphysical naturalism.
                            "When the Western world accepted Christianity, Caesar conquered; and the received text of Western theology was edited by his lawyers…. The brief Galilean vision of humility flickered throughout the ages, uncertainly…. But the deeper idolatry, of the fashioning of God in the image of the Egyptian, Persian, and Roman imperial rulers, was retained. The Church gave unto God the attributes which belonged exclusively to Caesar."

                            — Alfred North Whitehead

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I wonder how they define metaphysical naturalism.

                              assumption belief
                              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 02-25-2017, 08:33 AM.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

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