Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Yet another beneficial mutation in humans uncovered

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by The Thinker View Post
    Maybe we can take the gene mutation and genetically modify people in the future so we're all able to take higher levels of arsenic.
    It would be handy in Bangladesh.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      IIRC Darwin cited selective breeding (a.k.a. artificial selection) several times as doing the same thing that natural selection did (but much faster) in On the Origin of Species. It has been several years since I've read it though.
      It did. The first few chapters read like a pigeon-fancier's handbook.
      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't really sound like anyone is saying anything much different from what Sparko already suggested.
        I think the difference is whether the mutation(s) always existed, and merely happened to become common in this region, vs the mutation(s) did not exist at all until recently*.

        As an aside, the human population and DNA mutation rate are such that effectively every possible single point mutation occurred multiple times in the last 100 years.

        *i.e. a few centuries ago
        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't really sound like anyone is saying anything much different from what Sparko already suggested. In my totally un-sciencey and bare bones way of putting it, evolution occurs (maybe "occurs" is not the right word) when environmental factors highlight random mutations in a gene pool that present a survival benefit. Not taking into consideration later mutation, migration, and genetic drift, in a fashion, this is selective breeding, except, that there is no intelligence (necessarily, and perhaps that's debatable) doing the selecting. Rather the unintelligent environment is doing the selecting...if you will.

          I find discussions on this subject can be complicated sometimes because it seems to me that people on the evolution side of the debate (which I count myself in) get very...defensive...about exact word usage and concepts. Perhaps that's for good reason. They feel a need to be exacting because they've seen words and concepts that were more colloquial in nature taken and used against the theory of evolution. I once majored in Bio-Anthropology, and I'm certain I've forgotten more than I remember, but I find when I read threads like this that there's sometimes an unnecessary level of tension that seems unhelpful when explaining what evolution does. Evolution, on its surface, is not that complicated of a subject, but the quibbling over terms can sometimes lead to confusion I think. At least it does for me.
          I agree. But more to the point is that the science types carry in their minds distinctions, definitions, and differences which others may not. So the ideas of a mutation as a novum, something new, genetic drift, and genetic variation become muddled. At least in mind. I can read the paper and roughly understand its point, but the idea in the paper must incorporate with the ideas we already hold.

          Added in edit: I am not arguing against evolution, but am arguing for reasons that it is not clearly accepted by some.
          Last edited by simplicio; 03-01-2017, 04:59 AM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
            We've tested this sort of thing with bacteria. Grow a plate full of bacteria, and then make two copies of that plate. Stick one in the fridge to stop its growth, and pour virus over the second. By chance some of the bacteria will end up having mutations that make them resistant to the virus, and so you see little spots where their descendants grow.
            So you introduce a particular virus then you just happen to get a mutation that makes the bacteria resistant to that particular virus?
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              So you introduce a particular virus then you just happen to get a mutation that makes the bacteria resistant to that particular virus?
              Nope. The variation was present in the parent population. That's why the spots were in the same place both times you do the experiment.
              "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                Nope. The variation was present in the parent population. That's why the spots were in the same place both times you do the experiment.
                But you said: By chance some of the bacteria will end up having mutations that make them resistant to the virus, and so you see little spots where their descendants grow.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  But you said: By chance some of the bacteria will end up having mutations that make them resistant to the virus, and so you see little spots where their descendants grow.
                  Lurch, ignore seer. He deliberately misrepresents views and arguments he disagrees with.
                  Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                  MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                  MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                  seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Roy View Post
                    Lurch, ignore seer. He deliberately misrepresents views and arguments he disagrees with.
                    Where did I misrepresent Lurch? Be specific.
                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by seer View Post
                      But you said: By chance some of the bacteria will end up having mutations that make them resistant to the virus, and so you see little spots where their descendants grow.
                      And how is that not consistent with my explanation? By chance, some of the bacteria on the original plate would have mutations/variants that allowed them to resist the virus. When you duplicate the plate, these same mutations will be present on both the duplicates (not by chance).
                      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Where did I misrepresent Lurch? Be specific.
                        Where did I say you had? Be specific.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          Where did I say you had? Be specific.
                          Stop hiding behind your anal retentive parsing of words, you know that was what you were suggesting I was doing to Lurch. As a matter of fact show me where I misrepresented anyone's views, besides merely following their views to their logical conclusions.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Stop hiding behind your anal retentive parsing of words,
                            i.e. stop doing what you are doing to Lurch. Got it.
                            Last edited by Roy; 03-01-2017, 03:58 PM.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Considering the scarcity of water there (it's the world's driest desert where parts of it haven't seen a drop of rain since recordkeeping began) that would be advisable even if the water didn't have such high levels of arsenic.
                              This is from a transcript of "How The Earth Was Made" that aired on History.
                              ----------------------------
                              >> The tiny black crystalline minerals are pyroxenes.
                              They're crucial evidence because, like microscopic geologic clocks, their chemistry changes when exposed to cosmic radiation over time.
                              The sun is only producing a tiny bit of the radiation which will hit this rock, the majority of it is coming from all the stars you see in the night sky.
                              What it does to the rock is basically, uh, just bakes it, a bit like a really bad suntan, so it just comes down, hits it and cooks it.
                              As the rock gets cooked by cosmic rays, the pyroxenes break down and produce a gas called helium-3.
                              We can record how much helium-3 is within this rock, and the more we have, the longer that it has been exposed to cosmic or, uh, solar radiation.
                              Helium-3 gas is only produced in microscopic quantities, so Evenstar takes her samples to a lab 7,000 miles away in Glasgow, Scotland.
                              So what we do, uh, using a laser, is we shoot the laser into one of the wells, and vaporize our crystals.
                              And that's releasing the helium-3, then the helium-3 is going to go through all this complicated machinery, eventually run through the mass spectrometer.
                              By analyzing this data, she can figure out the last time the boulders were moved.
                              The oldest age sample we've actually recorded has been 23 million years.
                              So what this means is that, within certain areas of the Atacama Desert, these boulders have been sitting there and not moved by water for 23 million years. <<

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
                              48 responses
                              136 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Sparko
                              by Sparko
                               
                              Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
                              16 responses
                              74 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
                              6 responses
                              48 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post shunyadragon  
                              Working...
                              X