Originally posted by robrecht
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by John Reece View Post...
Though it makes many English teachers cringe, for better or worse, English usage no longer restricts these forms to plural reference. Contemporary English commonly uses expressions like the following: "If anybody had a right to be proud of their accomplishments, it was Paul."
...
Okay, off my soapbox now..."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostAll the more reason to learn the original languages!"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostJa, sicher - ich habe neimals anders zu tun...βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostI did answer. You haven't paid attention. I'm tired of repeating myself. And I never used the word "safety."
I'm not sure what you're referring to. But anything written in the Bible is written by God, so it can be trusted regardless of how non-literal it is
But that still leaves the question: Why would God translate with functional equivalence if formal equivalence is 'more literal' or 'more accurate'?
You just said that it can be trusted. So wouldn't that mean that functional can be trusted? After all, it seems to be God's preferred method...Last edited by phat8594; 03-27-2014, 11:44 AM.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostAll the more reason to learn the original languages!
"Whenever I hear a pastor say 'the literal meaning of the Greek word is ______', I cringe. They are probably wrong more than 90% of the time. That is because many pastors know how to read a Greek word & look it up in a concordance or lexicon, but very few can actually read Greek sentences"
That has always been a very humbling reminder to me. Being able to look up words in a Greek lexicon or concordance doesn't make a person a Greek scholar.
And now, I too cringe when I hear a pastor say 'The Greek word literally means _____' and the definition is something not found in any of the major translations.Last edited by phat8594; 03-27-2014, 11:43 AM.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostA theological text, when translated, obviously should result in a theological text in another language. But it should strive to reflect the theology of the author(s) and not the theology of the translator(s) and one should not presume that these are the same.
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Originally posted by John Reece View PostI can accept it, and have done so, off and on, since the publication of the NRSV ― the publication of which I had eagerly anticipated, my only English Bible theretofore from age 20 having been the RSV.
Like you, I grew up with the RSV. I've tried others, but find the NRSV generally the least unsatisfactory translation -- probably about the best one can hope for. I'm using the Common English Bible with junior high kids, with some reservations. It has more weird translations than I'd like, but not in places that are likely to affect the lessons for that age level. But with high school we use NRSV.
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Originally posted by RBerman View PostThat is indeed the challenge, including leaving ambiguous matters that were ambiguous in the original text.
I would rather understand a single letter, even a pause, in the original language of a text, than the entirety of a translation, especially with a text that attempts to speak of God.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Just as a help to anyone interested, here is a good book on the idea of 'literal' translations with regards to translation:
http://www.amazon.com/One-Bible-Many...rds=dave+brunn
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