Muslim dating question

[Dracula Girl]

I am watching Little Mosque on the Prairie, and one of the women said she can't date. It sounds like her reason for this is because she is Muslim. Do Muslims date? How do they end up together? How does it all work?

[barnasha]

I am watching Little Mosque on the Prairie, and one of the women said she can't date. It sounds like her reason for this is because she is Muslim. Do Muslims date? How do they end up together? How does it all work?

in traditional islamic culture, you don't have boyfriends and girlfriends... the emphasis on marriage is very strong. but this isn't exclusive to islamic culture. dating is arguably a more modern western tradition.

there are arguments for this approach - romantic ideas and lust get in the way of the more important decisions one makes when choosing a mate for life. it is interesting that some statistics have shown that arranged marriages have a higher success rate than ones that are not.


this can turn into a very deep discussion, but the short answer is that orthodox muslims will say dating is not something allowed, or at least not looked upon favorably, in islam.

[Dee Dee Warren]

it is interesting that some statistics have shown that arranged marriages have a higher success rate than ones that are not.

I hear this out of context very much. Without more context it suffers from the fallacy of believing that correlation equals causation.

[barnasha]

Not if you're not trying to make a point with it, there is no fallacy, just a remark. The fact is arranged marriages can work, regardless of the veracity of that anecdote. and that too is irrelevant, the point is that people often decide to marry/get together/etc for the wrong reasons

[Dracula Girl]

in traditional islamic culture, you don't have boyfriends and girlfriends... the emphasis on marriage is very strong. but this isn't exclusive to islamic culture. dating is arguably a more modern western tradition.

there are arguments for this approach - romantic ideas and lust get in the way of the more important decisions one makes when choosing a mate for life. it is interesting that some statistics have shown that arranged marriages have a higher success rate than ones that are not.


this can turn into a very deep discussion, but the short answer is that orthodox muslims will say dating is not something allowed, or at least not looked upon favorably, in islam.

So they don't have any form of courtship, just parents agree and get the kids together saying we want you to get married?

I imagine culture, at least social norms and values, also has an impact on how the marriage lasts.

Thank you.

[barnasha]

So they don't have any form of courtship, just parents agree and get the kids together saying we want you to get married?

I imagine culture, at least social norms and values, also has an impact on how the marriage lasts.

Thank you.

i think this depends on the culture of the place where the parents are from, a liberal, "sufi" muslim mom and dad in USA are going to be a lot more permissive of modern style 'dating' than ultra-orthodox "taleban" muslims in Afghanistan.

[Chabchaba]

I am watching Little Mosque on the Prairie, and one of the women said she can't date. It sounds like her reason for this is because she is Muslim. Do Muslims date? How do they end up together? How does it all work?

Islam doesn't set rules for how potential spouses are to meet, but leaves it to people's own preferences and to the customs of each society. The only restrictions are the restrictions that Islam imposes some restrictions on all interactions between men women, for example an unrelated man and a woman shouldn't be alone together.
You'd be surprised at the diversity of of cultures you'd find within the Islamic world, so for your question there are probably more answers than there are Islamic societies.

[Dan Zebiri]

Anastasia, Yes, that girl cannot date, and some muslims here will give you a politically correct answer, unfortunately which is not the really islamic answer.

But since you asked an honest and open answer, it deserves the truthful answer and the authentically orthodox islamic one. Not just a politically correct response!

In sunni islam (ie.orthodox, classical islam) there are guidelines that muhammad himself set up in the matter of mixing of the sexes.

According to the most respected institution in the world of Sunni Islam the Al-Azhar University in Cairo Egypt, the answer to your valid question comes!

According to an Arabic article in Al-Arabiyya the Egyptian Parliament in 2007, discussed a fatwa (an edict or islamic religious ruling) from an Al-Azhar cleric/'priest' that aims to circumvent the prohibition on a male and a female who are not married to each other from being together or working together in private. All she has to do, you see, is suckle him. Then he becomes her foster child, and they can be together without a chaperone.

This is known as 'adult suckling' in islam (at least sunni islam)

This command is firmly based and rooted in islamic authoritative sources.This bizarre ruling is based, of course, on Muhammad's own words.

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something rankles in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle, said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

(Sahih Muslim 3425)


Muhammad tells the daughter of Suhail to suckle Salim. This will make her unlawful to him, that is, he won't be able to marry her because he will be her foster child. Thus it will be lawful for him to be in the house with her, and Abu Hudhaifa will no longer be angry.

So, now you know & understand why that lady cannot date another man?

According to this Fatwa (edict), If she is even in the company of another man who is not her blood relative, she cannot marry him. This defeats the purpose and objective of Dating of course-to ultimately find a suitable life partner or husband.

According to this edict/fatwa, the only way she can be together with him is to SUCKLE HIM or allow him to suckle & drink from her breasts some of her milk.

THEN, he and she 'become her foster child' according to this bizzare instruction.

And being relatives, they therefore cannot be married.

So, thats WHY she cannot go dating. Anybody she 'dates' will have to become her foster brother by suckling him.

This is the AUTHENTIC islamis and muslim way.

Really weird don't you think? But absolutely TRUE in the light of what
Muhammad is recorded to have said in the muslim hadiths.

you can see more of such hadiths here:

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/c....html#008.3424

regards, Dan.

[barnasha]

Anastasia, Yes, that girl cannot date, and some muslims here will give you a politically correct answer, unfortunately which is not the really islamic answer.

I'm sure the last person to give the "islamic answer" is someone who spends 100% of their time on this board denigrating Islam.

[Dan Zebiri]

Forget it, barnasha! You are ignoring the fact that I was a muslim all my life, Until 10 years ago.

I was thoroughly on the inside of islam until God showed me the true light and I quit islam. Now THAT does not disqualify me from rationally commenting on islam does it?

There are seriously defective aspects of islam, the quran and the sunna of mohammad that warrants exposing to the general populace.

Dan.

I'm sure the last person to give the "islamic answer" is someone who spends 100% of their time on this board denigrating Islam.

[Dan Zebiri]

Rather than trying to denigrate me in your defense of islam, try dealing sensibly and rationally with my post above, instead :

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...63&postcount=8

[Cybelle Hawke]

Hehehe.... my experience with muslim lady friends is indeed quite different than the posts of Chabchaba.

This is how they have explained it to me.

In Islam culture a woman is never considered an independant person. Her whole life, she is and will be submitted. There is not a phase in life where she can have, like in the modern western world, an independant, single life outside her home and expose herself to the looks (and thoughts) of man.

She is submitted to her father and/or eldest brother and later to her husband.

They are responsible for her honour. And her honour is strongly linked to the honour of her family. The slightest whisper about her even being looked at or talked to by a man, can be considered as a failure of her father and brothers to keep their good family name.

Under no cirumstances girls are to be left alone with men. The honour of a girl (her uncorrupted 1000% virginity) is of extreme importance for being able to marry, as the man she will be for the rest of her life submitted to, has the right to claim that his woman is pure and untouched.

So dating in the sense of going to the movies or having dinner with a man alone is still very much out of the question. Let alone the scenario of going to the movies or have dinner with another man, a couple of months later.

Very strict muslims are still prearranging the marriage. And in that case, the purity is even more an issue and of much influence on her "freedom" to leave the house unaccompanied.

Nowadays western muslim girls are conceded far more freedom in many ways but the dating scene, that is, freely meeting with various men and kiss&hug romance with boyfriends is still causing polemics.

[Cybelle Hawke]

Oh I forgot to say, that I am under the impression that muslim girls are not brought up with typical western tales like Cinderella and Barbie.

It is not put in a girl´s head (during her education at home) that she will actively look for her Prince charming as is profiled in western romance books and films. A girl is raised to be submitted, comply and satisfy the wishes of her future husband. She is also taught to overcome her own wishes and desires. In the sexual sense her position is always that of submission and pleasing. To western women this would look rather strange, but when I talk to my mom (86 years) and friends of her generation, the today´s modern western way was not common at all for them back then either.

And still in some strict christian families today, girls do not have the same freedom in dating and meeting men, as does the socalled secular world.

So I do not see so much difference, except that muslims girls are socially and religiously outcasted when they do not want to submit to the current rules. I think for western ideas this is considered rather cruel and wrong. Also the muslim view on virginity is considered somewhat overdone but I have also known christian girls being thrown out of the house or put into a convent because they were caught in the act, so to speak, or turned out to be pregnant.

I guess the mordern world has changed so much and so fast the last 50 years, that the muslim traditions and culture look retarded.

I just would like to stress that my muslim lady friends are deeply loved by their fathers and brothers. Sometimes it seems to me that non muslims think that all women are badly treated in their homes. None of my muslim lady friends has been pushed or kicked into a marriage. It is just that the way muslims go about in finding or approving a suitable candidate is different.

Just thought it appropriate to post this as well, although it might be a bit off topic (for which I apologise Anastasia)

[barnasha]

Oh I forgot to say, that I am under the impression that muslim girls are not brought up with typical western tales like Cinderella and Barbie.

It is not put in a girl´s head (during her education at home) that she will actively look for her Prince charming as is profiled in western romance books and films. A girl is raised to be submitted, comply and satisfy the wishes of her future husband. She is also taught to overcome her own wishes and desires. In the sexual sense her position is always that of submission and pleasing. To western women this would look rather strange, but when I talk to my mom (86 years) and friends of her generation, the today´s modern western way was not common at all for them back then either.

And still in some strict christian families today, girls do not have the same freedom in dating and meeting men, as does the socalled secular world.

So I do not see so much difference, except that muslims girls are socially and religiously outcasted when they do not want to submit to the current rules. I think for western ideas this is considered rather cruel and wrong. Also the muslim view on virginity is considered somewhat overdone but I have also known christian girls being thrown out of the house or put into a convent because they were caught in the act, so to speak, or turned out to be pregnant.

I guess the mordern world has changed so much and so fast the last 50 years, that the muslim traditions and culture look retarded.

I just would like to stress that my muslim lady friends are deeply loved by their fathers and brothers. Sometimes it seems to me that non muslims think that all women are badly treated in their homes. None of my muslim lady friends has been pushed or kicked into a marriage. It is just that the way muslims go about in finding or approving a suitable candidate is different.

Just thought it appropriate to post this as well, although it might be a bit off topic (for which I apologise Anastasia)

this seems like a gross overgeneralization... most young muslim women I have met are normal young women. maybe you are thinking about women in countries run by people like Taleban?

[Cybelle Hawke]

this seems like a gross overgeneralization... most young muslim women I have met are normal young women. maybe you are thinking about women in countries run by people like Taleban?

I have no muslim lady friends in Taleban countries!!!

Where do I say that the muslim women I know, are not normal?

and

Why is it that only YOU have experience with islam?????