I can't wait for the rapture

[ApologiaPhoenix]

What's this Jin-rolling?

It's a way for Ghar to avoid backing his point and paint someone who actually confronts him and shows he doesn't know anything as someone to avoid.

[Jin-Roh]

Oh Ghar...I put him on my ignore list.

"Jin Rolled"... hehe that's actually kinda clever.

[gharfish]

It's a way for Ghar to avoid backing his point and paint someone who actually confronts him and shows he doesn't know anything as someone to avoid.

Right ! I don't know anything. Hold on; what did I claim to know ? Hey, since the man has popped in again, ask Jin-Roh what Jesus' social justice concerns are, you little snob. Phoenix burn! .....Recommend your book to him.

You are the one here who is so dense that he didn't get the obvious; me turning Jin-Roh's unfairness towards dispies around on him with his own words. The next time I won't do anything when/if he pulls this very same stunt (this makes the third time) than to call him a trolling jerk, right away. Oh, Jin-Roh; I know you can't hear me, but you are lazy too. Of course putting me on ignore was the thing to do for you.




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[TyRockwell]

Originally posted by Brad Crassley
Who else besides me is ready for the rapture to happen?

Probably not the church in China and Africa, they've been going through tribulation for decades. I don't expect them to believe you when you tell them that Jesus is coming back to whisk them away before it gets Really Bad, but then, why would they want to exchange their crowns for a quick escape?

As I've said, the people who believe in a future 7 year tribulation, after a rapture, have been taken in by a great deception. No matter how bad things are, or have been, they think they won't be here to have to deal with and overcome them, so they are not preparing as they should to "be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might." Eph. 6:10

Christians who are indeed suffering bad tribulation now are not thinking they won't be here, and don't have to prepare and be strong in the Lord's power. They live it every day.

[gharfish]

.....People holding dispie futurism might think all of those things are important, but (in my observation) generally do not think of them as nearly as important as getting to heaven when you die or raptured when the time comes.

The dispie might consider Jesus' social justice concerns as important too, like Jin-Roh, the preterist. Uhuh. Might. ...But going to heaven and getting raptured when the time comes is generally alot more important for the dispie. Oh, it goes without saying! ...And a good post on the rapture!

And I get put on ignore, as offensive, by this guy!?




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[ApologiaPhoenix]

Right ! I don't know anything.

Confession is good for the soul.

Hold on; what did I claim to know ?

You made claims about Jesus's social commands. Want to back them?

Hey, since the man has popped in again, ask Jin-Roh what Jesus' social justice concerns are, you little snob. Phoenix burn! .....Recommend your book to him.

Gladly. I have no problem talking to Jin-Roh even though I think he's dead wrong in several areas. It's mutual respect. So Jin, if you believe there are commands to be kept for social justice, what do you mean by social justice?

And Ghar, I think it's cute you want to call me a little snob. Is it because I actually went and did my homework on these issues so that even if I was wrong, which I'm not, I'd still have an informed opinion? Don't blame me for exposing you don't know what you're talking about.

You are the one here who is so dense that he didn't get the obvious; me turning Jin-Roh's unfairness towards dispies around on him with his own words.

Then all you could have said was that you didn't believe in the concept. You didn't. You kept going which makes me think you're more embarrassed about getting caught and trying to blame it on me instead.

The next time I won't do anything when/if he pulls this very same stunt (this makes the third time) than to call him a trolling jerk, right away. Oh, Jin-Roh; I know you can't hear me, but you are lazy too. Of course putting me on ignore was the thing to do for you.

Oh I'm sure he can see it. However, for you to have not read, it is ironic you refer to another as lazy. Seriously Ghar, you could have just given thanks for the reference, admitted that you didn't know what you were talking about with social justice, and moved on.

Could it be a pride issue? Surely not!




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[Jin-Roh]

Gladly. I have no problem talking to Jin-Roh even though I think he's dead wrong in several areas. It's mutual respect. So Jin, if you believe there are commands to be kept for social justice, what do you mean by social justice?

I admitted earlier that it is a bit of a buzz word.

My point, earlier in the thread, is that I think what your eschatology is does affect your ideas about evangelism. Preterists are certainly not concerned about whether or not someone misses the rapture. That kind of thing is a big motivator for futurists -as I can attest to as I was in a very dispie/futurist denom when I was younger.

When I think of "social justice" what I mean is that I think preterists and idealists have a little bit more interest in affecting political orders and addressing what everyone thinks are social ills. This could be systemic poverty, slavery (as in the past and in some places of the world today), feeding the sheep by actually feeding them etc.

At least in my understanding of "Kingdom of God" and eschatology this is not some kind of preamble to Gospel or something that Christians do along with the Gospel. This is as much a part of the Gospel as "a method of salvation" or similar phrases.

My Pastor back in College (preterist and idealists), has said "the world has a glorious future." I think it is because of this, that preterists and idealists have greater interest in these things than futurists.

So Eschatology does affect your view of evangelicism.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I admitted earlier that it is a bit of a buzz word.

I saw and agree, though I'd also say it's a nonsense term.

My point, earlier in the thread, is that I think what your eschatology is does affect your ideas about evangelism. Preterists are certainly not concerned about whether or not someone misses the rapture. That kind of thing is a big motivator for futurists -as I can attest to as I was in a very dispie/futurist denom when I was younger.

In one sense, it shouldn't affect us differently. We should all embrace the Great Commission whether there's a rapture or not.

When I think of "social justice" what I mean is that I think preterists and idealists have a little bit more interest in affecting political orders and addressing what everyone thinks are social ills. This could be systemic poverty, slavery (as in the past and in some places of the world today), feeding the sheep by actually feeding them etc.

I could agree with that, though I wouldn't use the term "social justice."

At least in my understanding of "Kingdom of God" and eschatology this is not some kind of preamble to Gospel or something that Christians do along with the Gospel. This is as much a part of the Gospel as "a method of salvation" or similar phrases.

No problem there.

My Pastor back in College (preterist and idealists), has said "the world has a glorious future." I think it is because of this, that preterists and idealists have greater interest in these things than futurists.

So Eschatology does affect your view of evangelicism.

I agree. I look to the future of the world with hope because I believe God is bringing about his Kingdom through evangelism.

[TyRockwell]

I admitted earlier that it is a bit of a buzz word.

My point, earlier in the thread, is that I think what your eschatology is does affect your ideas about evangelism. Preterists are certainly not concerned about whether or not someone misses the rapture.

Whether someone "misses the 'rapture' " should not be a motivation for evangelism. We evangelize because it brings people salvation from eternal separation from God, into eternal life with God. But the idea that it is 'eternal life in heaven' is not what the Bible teaches.

At least in my understanding of "Kingdom of God" and eschatology this is not some kind of preamble to Gospel or something that Christians do along with the Gospel. This is as much a part of the Gospel as "a method of salvation" or similar phrases.

Learning to live in the Kingdom of God is not a "method of salvation." In truth, the Kingdom of God is much more a reality for a saved person than for an unsaved one, though the unsaved can know from experience and observation that the Kingdom's ways are beneficial and right, and to be sought.

My Pastor back in College (preterist and idealists), has said "the world has a glorious future." I think it is because of this, that preterists and idealists have greater interest in these things than futurists.

Traditional futurists think the glorious future is in heaven. But God's goal is "On earth, as it is in heaven." Futurists think "In heaven, because 'on earth' is not the point." But, "On Earth" IS the point. It is only after "On earth" is achieved, that the New Heaven and New Earth come down from God out of heaven. Don't quickly reject this. Think on it. Read it in Rev. 21 and Rev. 22.

So Eschatology does affect your view of evangelicism.

If eschatology motivates one to evangelize, he is thinking too much of 'going to heaven,' as if that was the "be-all and end-all" of the gospel. It is an emotion-driven idea. It believes that Jesus' command to "make disciples" has more to do with perpetuating the Church and evangelism, than with the things that follow, after salvation; the King's Dominion on earth.

God is bringing about His Kingdom on earth through making disciples.

[gharfish]

Confession is good for the soul.

I confess that you that you were being jerk to say that I didn't know anything.

You made claims about Jesus's social commands. Want to back them?

What claims ? What ?! Want to quote me ? Do that or shut up.

Gladly. I have no problem talking to Jin-Roh even though I think he's dead wrong in several areas. It's mutual respect. So Jin, if you believe there are commands to be kept for social justice, what do you mean by social justice?

Aren't you the dead right blessing for all ?

I was employing a little sarcasm to make a point. Yes, and that was, *as I have already told you, that I used the word commands to point out that evangelism has it's command. The topic was evangelism.*

You are just naturally a know-it-all who likes to down people in debate, showing what a hot shot researchin' academian you are becoming.

And Ghar, I think it's cute you want to call me a little snob. Is it because I actually went and did my homework on these issues so that even if I was wrong, which I'm not, I'd still have an informed opinion? Don't blame me for exposing you don't know what you're talking about.

I made no claims to know what all social justice, the term, means. Oh, and as for your homework; you read a book. Woo!

Then all you could have said was that you didn't believe in the concept. You didn't. You kept going which makes me think you're more embarrassed about getting caught and trying to blame it on me instead.

I do believe in the concept. And back this up: What in the blazes was I caught doing ?

Oh I'm sure he can see it. However, for you to have not read, it is ironic you refer to another as lazy. Seriously Ghar, you could have just given thanks for the reference, admitted that you didn't know what you were talking about with social justice, and moved on.

Could it be a pride issue? Surely not!

I called him lazy only for putting me on ignore. To turn his words around: "social justice concerns," making no comments or claims about what those are! did not require me to know what all HE, Jin-Roh, thought that meant. He equated the doing of these whatevers with the actual task of evangelism.

And all I did when a gave a wiki link was to convey that social justice means alot of different things to different people. I posted the link at the same time that I had been wrangling with joel and OtherCheek on their strictly financial definition: progressive taxation and the redistribution of wealth and property. At the time I gave that link, Glenn Beck was telling people to leave churches that even spoke of social justice. You asked for a definition of the term. I gave a link a few pages later. I wasn't trying to prove anything at all and certainly not trying to be a big deal. I'm sorry that it didn't satisfy you, Mr. book owner.

Thank you for your completing book recommendation, AP, that I might know something!
Is it too late now to thank you ?




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[Jin-Roh]

Whether someone "misses the 'rapture' " should not be a motivation for evangelism.

I don't think it "should be" either for obvious reasons, but rapture anxiety motivates plenty of dispies.

We evangelize because it brings people salvation from eternal separation from God, into eternal life with God. But the idea that it is 'eternal life in heaven' is not what the Bible teaches.


Learning to live in the Kingdom of God is not a "method of salvation." In truth, the Kingdom of God is much more a reality for a saved person than for an unsaved one, though the unsaved can know from experience and observation that the Kingdom's ways are beneficial and right, and to be sought.


Traditional futurists think the glorious future is in heaven. But God's goal is "On earth, as it is in heaven." Futurists think "In heaven, because 'on earth' is not the point." But, "On Earth" IS the point. It is only after "On earth" is achieved, that the New Heaven and New Earth come down from God out of heaven. Don't quickly reject this. Think on it. Read it in Rev. 21 and Rev. 22.

If eschatology motivates one to evangelize, he is thinking too much of 'going to heaven,' as if that was the "be-all and end-all" of the gospel. It is an emotion-driven idea. It believes that Jesus' command to "make disciples" has more to do with perpetuating the Church and evangelism, than with the things that follow, after salvation; the King's Dominion on earth.

God is bringing about His Kingdom on earth through making disciples.

Ty, you do realize that I'm not a futurist, right?

[gharfish]

And the people I know who are idealists or preterists tend to believe that the sharing the gospel plan of salvation and effecting subsequent discipleship is important, but (in my observation) generally do not think of this as nearly as important as obeying Jesus' social justice commands.


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For the record, this statement was only a way to turn the tables on a post that made an accusation about evangelism and "dispies."

I do not know and believe that pretersists are doing Jesus' social justice commands, first and foremost, instead of spreading the gospel of salvation! The latter is a command, which is why I used the word. I never claimed to know one thing about what Jesus' social justice concerns were. I only used Jin-Roh's term.

No, I do not "equate preterists with emergent church" folks, or something quite similar to that. I could take this to Th Boiler Room, but I choose to keep it quiet. I'll let Holding hear from me here in a very low key way. He gave me a Screwball of the Month Award last month for this quote (above).

I think we (Holding) must maintain the truce of total non-involvement, one with the other, established by a key moderator of this site - your sister site, and never let the agreement be broken.

I will go back to speaking no more of you, and I really hope you will do the same of me, as we both agreed to.




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