Do mormons worship Jesus?

[jo7241974]

It amazes me how much speculation goes on when man has more information available to him. Whether good, bad, correct, incorrect, true or false; proximity to information gets man's thinking juices going.

The Prophets of the Bible are exempt from this type of speculation because so little information is available. Basically, the Bible represents only the part they played in direct relationship with the actual passages given to us; a boiled down "you only need to know this" format. With little or no sources available, they remain as individuals whose entire lives are summed up in the very few sanitized words written. Even those who served as Prophets for a great many years surely thought more, spoke more, wrote more, and did more than is revealed in the small record we have of them.

Speculation reveals a man's thought process; it is also a good way to get to know what truly motivates his continuing fascination with the direction he allows his thoughts to take him.

God bless,

jo

[Cow Poke]

It amazes me how much speculation goes on when man has more information available to him.

Yeah, you're right - we outta just close our eyes to the facts because information is BAD and feelings are GOOD.

Whether good, bad, correct, incorrect, true or false; proximity to information gets man's thinking juices going.

And facts are a REALLY dangerous thing - they might lead to ... um... TRUTH!!!!!

The Prophets of the Bible are exempt from this type of speculation because so little information is available. Basically, the Bible represents only the part they played in direct relationship with the actual passages given to us; a boiled down "you only need to know this" format. With little or no sources available, they remain as individuals whose entire lives are summed up in the very few sanitized words written. Even those who served as Prophets for a great many years surely thought more, spoke more, wrote more, and did more than is revealed in the small record we have of them.

More "throw the prophets under the bus" and "throw the Bible under there with them" drivel.

Speculation reveals a man's thought process; it is also a good way to get to know what truly motivates his continuing fascination with the direction he allows his thoughts to take him.

God bless,

jo

Yeah, I get it... thinking is BAD... BAD BAD BAD. Believe the BoM - don't ask questions... thinking bad. BoM good.

Come on, Jo.

[OtherCheek]

Yeah, you're right - we outta just close our eyes to the facts because information is BAD and feelings are GOOD.



And facts are a REALLY dangerous thing - they might lead to ... um... TRUTH!!!!!



More "throw the prophets under the bus" and "throw the Bible under there with them" drivel.



Yeah, I get it... thinking is BAD... BAD BAD BAD. Believe the BoM - don't ask questions... thinking bad. BoM good.

Come on, Jo.

CP, do you somehow think that we LDS DON'T think?

[JAYMZ]

CP, do you somehow think that we LDS DON'T think?

Yes...............you think like a mormon.:

[JAYMZ]

I do not know if BY was a racist. To some it could easily appear that way. The world view at the time he was a Prophet was different than today. I know that all Prophets have their own world view. Prophets are used to guide and direct God's followers on their journey for salvation.

It really doesn't matter to me if BY was a racist or not. God calls who He will call. When BY was called to be the Prophet, God used BY's strengths to help keep His fledgling newly restored Church alive. The Church survived because God was not going to let it be destroyed. BY was one of the tools He used. Who am I to question God? God promised David that the Savior would be born in his lineage even though David took Uriah's life. God is using man for His own purposes, regardless of what the world thinks of those men.

God bless,

jo

I remember certain LDS members say things about how you cant truly be saved unless you truly REPENT of your sins.

By some of the LDS standards, BY wouldnt even qualify as a christian, let alone a prophet ( because he didnt repent of the sin of racism ).

[OtherCheek]

I remember certain LDS members say things about how you cant truly be saved unless you truly REPENT of your sins.

By some of the LDS standards, BY wouldnt even qualify as a christian, let alone a prophet ( because he didnt repent of the sin of racism ).

Yes, we believe that true repentance IS an essential gospel principle, along with Faith in Jesus Christ.

[OtherCheek]

Yes...............you think like a mormon.:

Thanks. That's a good thing.

[jo7241974]

Yeah, you're right - we outta just close our eyes to the facts because information is BAD and feelings are GOOD.

And facts are a REALLY dangerous thing - they might lead to ... um... TRUTH!!!!!

More "throw the prophets under the bus" and "throw the Bible under there with them" drivel.

Yeah, I get it... thinking is BAD... BAD BAD BAD. Believe the BoM - don't ask questions... thinking bad. BoM good.

Come on, Jo.

I'm just making observations. I see you like to speculate on them, too. I also observe that your protestations about throwing the Prophets or the Bible under the bus is really a poor excuse for not having the courage of your own professed convictions. It is safe for you to judge a current day Prophet when there is more information available about them. Your responses to me indicate you would be unwilling to do the same for the Prophets of the Bible even if the information WAS available; hence your "under the bus" reference. We are NOT throwing any Prophets under any bus. We know they are imperfect and that it is God who chooses them despite their imperfections. For you to project the belief that God would not allow them to be anything less than perfect when acting as His Prophet is absurd. We have evidence in the Bible that Prophets disobeyed God. Your view causes God to abandon His own attributes in order to manipulate His chosen vessles. That is just an observation of the facts. We are NOT throwing the Bible under the bus; we defend it as the Word of God. You choose to believe otherwise. That is your choice. Additionally, you misrepresent us with this "under the bus" doodoo. Shame on you.

God bless,

jo

[JAYMZ]

Yes, we believe that true repentance IS an essential gospel principle, along with Faith in Jesus Christ.

When did Young repent of his bigoted attitude ? Or did he do it once, and then fall back into it ?

[JAYMZ]

Some years ago I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and God...It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven... (President Brigham Young, in the Tabernacle, General Conference, October 8, 1861, 10:30 a.m.; Brigham Young Addresses, 1860-1864, Vol. 4, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 134 (in chronological order), Historical Dept. Church, Ms d 1234, Box 49 fd 8)

Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body [see footnote 2 for more on celestial body.], and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spokenHE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or nonprofessing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later... Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. (Journal of Discourses, 1:5051, Brigham Young, April 9, 1852).

and not only that but Brigham Young said ""I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call scripture." (Journal of Discourses 13:95)"

Straight answer please.......no dancing.

Was Young just full of himself, and was suffering from thinking more of himself than warranted or........
............can we take what he said at face value ?

[jo7241974]

When did Young repent of his bigoted attitude ? Or did he do it once, and then fall back into it ?

I haven't developed the ability yet to either travel back in time, or crawl inside another person's head to find answers to these types of questions.

God bless,

jo

[JAYMZ]

“..Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” – JoD: vol.10 p. 110: (March 8, 1863)

“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, un- comely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race – that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, [p.291] and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam’s children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed.When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion. “- JoD 7:290-291 (October 9, 1859)

"Those who were LESS VALIANT IN PRE-EXISTENCE and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the NEGROES." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527, 1966 edition, emphasis added.

"THE NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, ...but this inequality is not of man's origin. IT IS THE LORD'S DOING, is based on his eternal laws of justice, and grows out of the LACK OF SPIRITUAL VALIANCE OF THOSE CONCERNED IN THEIR FIRST ESTATE [the Mormon pre-existence]." LDS "Apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527 - 528, 1966 edition, emphasis added.

This stuff just goes on and on.

I'm not really feeling the Spirit here, in your prophets words.

I would throw this stuff under the bus too.

[Cow Poke]

CP, do you somehow think that we LDS DON'T think?

Maybe not enough, OC.

[Cow Poke]

Thanks. That's a good thing.

Sometimes, it actually is!

[Cow Poke]

I'm just making observations. I see you like to speculate on them, too. I also observe that your protestations about throwing the Prophets or the Bible under the bus is really a poor excuse for not having the courage of your own professed convictions.

I've been arrested for my convictions, Jo... don't give me that crap.

It is safe for you to judge a current day Prophet when there is more information available about them. Your responses to me indicate you would be unwilling to do the same for the Prophets of the Bible even if the information WAS available; hence your "under the bus" reference. We are NOT throwing any Prophets under any bus.

You mean accusations like the patriarchs or prophets were perverts? Doesn't get much more "under the bus" than that.

We know they are imperfect and that it is God who chooses them despite their imperfections. For you to project the belief that God would not allow them to be anything less than perfect when acting as His Prophet is absurd.

Show me where I projected that. I have specifically talked about one who claimed that "everything I say" is scripture. That's bunk. If somebody claims that standard for themselves, they need to be judged by that standard. If they step aside from the prophet role, and note that they are simply expressing an opinion, there's plenty of wiggle room.

We have evidence in the Bible that Prophets disobeyed God.

You don't need "evidence", Jo, the Bible flat SAYS it plain as day.

Your view causes God to abandon His own attributes in order to manipulate His chosen vessles.

Absolutely not true. Prove it.

That is just an observation of the facts. We are NOT throwing the Bible under the bus; we defend it as the Word of God. You choose to believe otherwise. That is your choice. Additionally, you misrepresent us with this "under the bus" doodoo. Shame on you.

God bless,

jo

Aren't you the one who had Matthew at the Mount of Transfiguration? But you give your rendition of what the Bible is saying, and everybody else is, therefore, obviously "blind" or pharisees... that gets really really old.