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Women Speaking to Crowds of People at Public Places

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    He said "I don't..."
    Which means it was all God's instruction regarding women to Timothy. (case example: 1 Corinthians 7:12).
    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Which means it was all God's instruction regarding women to Timothy. (case example: 1 Corinthians 7:12).
      If it were God's command he would have just said "Timothy, don't let a woman teach men."

      By prefacing it with "I don't let a woman teach" he was giving Timothy personal advice. He did not say "The Lord says don't let women teach men" nor did he simply command Timothy not to let women teach men. He specifically made it personal. You asked for Hermaneutic principal, then you reject it.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Sparko
        By prefacing it with "I don't let a woman teach" he was giving Timothy personal advice. He did not say "The Lord says don't let women teach men" nor did he simply command Timothy not to let women teach men. He specifically made it personal. You asked for Hermaneutic principal, then you reject it.
        Even assuming that limited interpretation of 1 Timothy, elsewhere he flatly directs that women should keep silent and shouldn't even ask questions.

        1 Corinthians 14:34-35
        Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
          Even assuming that limited interpretation of 1 Timothy, elsewhere he flatly directs that women should keep silent and shouldn't even ask questions.

          1 Corinthians 14:34-35
          Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
          Which is impossible to take at face value and still harmonize with chapter 11 of the same letter, where it is not only permitted but clearly *expected* that women will speak in prayer and prophecy.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Federalist.

          Nationalist Christian.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

          Justice for Matthew Perna!

          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            Nice story, but it doesn't fly: ειναι "being" μιας γυναικος "OF one woman" ανδρα "(the・a) man". Context shows that the secondary definitions ("wife" and "husband") are correct for this verse, and the declension for both "one" and "woman" being genitive, "of one wife" is inescapable.

            ...
            I freely admit that, as I have no Greek training, this part of the discussion has now raced over my head. I based my remarks about 1 Tim. 3 on my understanding of ch. 24 of Philip Payne's book, Man and Woman, One in Christ.

            While I don't believe the text itself is online, this brief discussion is. It is not *directly* relevant, but may be of interest to some.

            Edit: I see in the Comments section that Payne does address the question of whether "one-woman-man" is an idiom.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

            Justice for Matthew Perna!

            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              If it were God's command he would have just said "Timothy, don't let a woman teach men."

              By prefacing it with "I don't let a woman teach" he was giving Timothy personal advice. He did not say "The Lord says don't let women teach men" nor did he simply command Timothy not to let women teach men. He specifically made it personal. You asked for Hermaneutic principal, then you reject it.
              You have not established that Paul was not writing in his apostolic authority.
              What is the context of the argument? The Greek for "woman" and "man" can also be understood and be translated "wife" and "husband" in some contexts (such as 1 Timothy 2:11-14).
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                Which is impossible to take at face value and still harmonize with chapter 11 of the same letter, where it is not only permitted but clearly *expected* that women will speak in prayer and prophecy.
                The problem is the reader's understanding, not the text. Women were never forbidden ministry itself. But the role of the woman is not that of a man nor the man of that of a woman.
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  You have not established that Paul was not writing in his apostolic authority.
                  you have not established that he was. derp.

                  Usually when someone is speaking representing another authority, and then makes a statement beginning with "I don't let..." he is giving a personal statement. That's common sense. If you don't like it, prove otherwise.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    you have not established that he was. derp.

                    Usually when someone is speaking representing another authority, and then makes a statement beginning with "I don't let..." he is giving a personal statement. That's common sense. If you don't like it, prove otherwise.
                    You are using which translation? "don't?"
                    What you cited did not prove what you contended. Need context. What I referenced 1 Timothy 2:11-14 was with apostolic authority. Adam and Eve were the first husband and wife.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      The problem is the reader's understanding, not the text. Women were never forbidden ministry itself. But the role of the woman is not that of a man nor the man of that of a woman.
                      I was responding specifically to the idea that women are to remain "silent" in the assembly. So yes, Obsidian clearly does not understand some texts.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd
                        Which is impossible to take at face value and still harmonize with chapter 11 of the same letter, where it is not only permitted but clearly *expected* that women will speak in prayer and prophecy.
                        Even if it were talking about speaking in church, the exception would prove the rule. But Chapter 11 doesn't even say anything specifically about speaking in church.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                          Even if it were talking about speaking in church, the exception would prove the rule.
                          There is no such thing as an exception that proves a rule. That is a dodge people invoke to explain why their supposed "rule" failed.


                          But Chapter 11 doesn't even say anything specifically about speaking in church.
                          Interesting notion. What do YOU think 1 Cor. 11:4-5 refer to?
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Federalist.

                          Nationalist Christian.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                          Justice for Matthew Perna!

                          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            1 Corinthians 11:13-15
                            Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering
                            My answer is - no: nature teaches nothing of the sort.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by NorrinRadd
                              There is no such thing as an exception that proves a rule. That is a dodge people invoke to explain why their supposed "rule" failed.
                              That's like saying that since God allows for divorce in cases of adultery, there is no rule about divorce. It's completely foolish.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                                I was responding specifically to the idea that women are to remain "silent" in the assembly. So yes, Obsidian clearly does not understand some texts.
                                That maybe. Everyone might have Biblical texts that one might not correctly understand. Even translators of the texts. Now one can make a cultural argument, and the apostolic instruction could be limited to that culture as it was in the context when it was written (such as 1 Corinthians 7:22). Such texts can still have application but in the cultural difference.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                                Comment

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