Combatting Pornography

[One Bad Pig]

You can pm this info to me. Thanks,

jo

Sent (to OC as well).

[franktalk]

That any man, and any woman (save Christ alone) when subjected to a temptation such as of a sexual nature will fall if subjected long enough, and to a great enough degree. That being said, I think the example of Joseph sold into Egypt is a good example that all should follow, and that is to do all we can to turn and flee from temptation when it comes knocking. When we fail to do so, but rather invite the temptation, we forfeit the protection of the Spirit, and will be overcome eventually.

Pretty much anything in the creation can be used for evil. But it is also true that pornography does have an intended use. It is obvious that to actively go and access pornography will lead to a changed behavior. That is the intent. But is that the same as a woman wearing a tight skirt or low cut blouse? Is it not done to induce a change in behavior?

We of course are a spirit, but that spirit lives in a body of flesh and has the temptations of the flesh. We can not ignore them. Some people have an easier time limiting any emotional attachment to what they see and hear. Others are free to blow in the wind as temptations of the world and flesh come their way. So we say that some are of this world and others are of the spirit. If you develop the spirit then this world does not have the dramatic effect on you. Those who are weak in the spirit are of this world so as the world tosses you as temptation you can be lead by the nose off the cliff. The real issue is can someone develop a powerful spirit? Would this be the ultimate answer? Because as I said the world is filled with temptations. If we try and remove anything that we may stumble on we will not learn that we are weak? Is it not worthwhile to know if the world has power over you?

Christ was tempted by Satan for some period of time. He did not change His course and His Spirit was not weak. Did He run from Satan? Later with Peter when He said "Satan get behind Me" did He run from Peter? I don't think so. So the temptations of the world are a way to test how much living you do in the spirit and how much you live in the world.

I have often wondered about who is the stronger. Someone who runs from temptation or someone who developes a way to ignore the temptations. Both of course have their merits.

I believe there are some who like Paul have their own demon to tempt them. It can not be taken away. Like Paul we are to deal with that demon and do well anyway. For some that will mean to remove themself from temptation. For others a developing spirit will do the trick. We all have our own lessons to learn. There is no single answer for all.

[Raphael]

So now Sparko is the one wearing nothing but a fig leaf (figuratively speaking)

Thanks, now I have to go and try pour bleach in my ears to remove that mental image.

[franktalk]

The spirit of man is our free will. It is the discission engine that makes the flesh act. If someone has a weak spirit it manifest itself as a life ruled by this world or the flesh. Some are happy with this and others are not. We even have people who worship nature and believe in spirits of nature.

Now when we have an issue with the world how are we to relate to it? Do we try and change the world? That can be a noble calling and some will choose to do so. When it comes to certain basic human traits I find that all of the effort is a waste. Some things will never be controlled. So we are left with controlling ourselves in this fallen world. And how best to help ourself but to develop our own spirit with the help from the Spirit of the Lord. It is spiritual strength that can make the difference. Do we not ask for strength when we pray? I know I do.

[OtherCheek]

Christ was tempted by Satan for some period of time. He did not change His course and His Spirit was not weak. Did He run from Satan? Later with Peter when He said "Satan get behind Me" did He run from Peter? I don't think so. So the temptations of the world are a way to test how much living you do in the spirit and how much you live in the world.

I have often wondered about who is the stronger. Someone who runs from temptation or someone who developes a way to ignore the temptations. Both of course have their merits.

Well, not every temptation we can run from, but some we can. And when it lies within our power to do so, I think it behooves the wise person to flee rather than to invite or welcome exposure to it.

Other times, it might be appropriate to hum a favorite hymn or something until we can get out of temptation's path. Jesus did not allow satan to remain forever but exercised his power to dismiss him.

[OtherCheek]

Sent (to OC as well).

Thanks. I got it.

I don't think Hank knows his anti-Mormon literature that well.

[Vivian]

Pornography in many ways is the same as a gun. It is a thing that on its own is harmless. But its use can be terrible and destructive. If a couple tape themselves and then play it back for their own pleasure is not this the same act but innocent. So the intended use is the issue. Now some will say that once viewed the act takes over and the results can be blamed on the content. I would have to disagree. It is like many things in life. One thing can be viewed by many and many results will happen. So the real issue is how can someone be consumed by the act of watching pornography to the point where they "feel" compelled to do bad behavior. This thing can be a stumbling block I am sure, but why?

How far does one go to prevent temptation. Do we force our women to wear burkas? I think the issue is self control not the forced removal of the temptation. Now having said that I don't feel society should be swamped with images on billboards. And of course young minds that have not built up a moral wall could be better served not being exposed to pornography.

From a Biblical view we have a story of a king who had decided how to treat a prisoner, then being tempted by a dance from a woman he is compelled to kill his prisoner and deliver his head to her. Was the king already evil? Was the dancer already evil? Of course they were. The dance was an excuse for them to carry out what they already wanted to do. So some idea kept the king from murder, a fear of an uprising. But lust added to his own wishes over rode his concerns and he acted as he would have without restraints. So does pornography reveal what is already there? I for one believe it does.

Jesus tells us that we are judged by what is in our heart. If your heart wants to rape and murder yet you do not because of fear of punishment then you need a new heart. One can get one from the Creator of all things.

Hi franktalk -

I agree that the problem is the heart, not the potential temptation.

Certainly pornography affects some differently than it does others, and it is our job to know 'our cross', our weaknesses, and pray to God that we not be led into temptation that would cause their exploitation.

Something that is also stated in scripture:

2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.
6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

This not only makes us take a pause regarding our own weaknesses, but those of others, making sure that we do not take action or word that would lead to another being tempted, or touching on their weakness. Paul speaks of this same issue in 1 Corinthians:

12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

And so we as followers of Christ have a responsibility to be aware of not only our own weaknesses, but also the weaknesses of our brothers - even potential weaknesses of our brothers, and do nothing that could possibly lead them to sin.

This speaks of to whom much is given, much is required. As we grow in Christ, all that we do, all that we think or say, is for Christ, in service to Christ, and so we think, say, or do nothing for our own benefit alone, or for our own pleasure, or pride. But do all for Christ.

With this standard, everything changes. Is there benefit of showing someone, even our spouse, porn? Certainly, there might be a situation where our spouse might benefit, or have some healing, or something that could develop their own healing and completion might take place in such an act. Anything is possible in Christ.

But for many of us, the thought of doing anything to bring ourselves alone pleasure just doesn't enter our minds.

Shalom!

Viv

[Cow Poke]

Thanks. I got it.

I don't think Hank knows his anti-Mormon literature that well.

So, true or false?

ETA: Ummmm... the allegation that you present your works to the Father in a fig leaf apron. THAT allegation (though I may not have worded it exactly correctly)

[OtherCheek]

So, true or false?

ETA: Ummmm... the allegation that you present your works to the Father in a fig leaf apron. THAT allegation (though I may not have worded it exactly correctly)

False.

[Cow Poke]

False.

Thanks

[franktalk]

Vivian ,

Pornography is but one of many stumbling blocks. Since it is tied to our sexual nature it has strong connections to our flesh.

Now would the world be better off without it? I am sure it would. But how are we to do that? Kill the makers of pornography? I doubt if even that would work.

There are some in our society that separate themselves from temptation. This is done in a noble cause and appears to work well for those who do it. If it is choice then I have no problem with isolation if that is what one wants. Some may feel that removing temptation for children is a wise move. I would have to agree. But at some point those who will become evil will become evil. Those that are not the elect have for some reason been given over to Satan. But those people in displaying their evil serve as an image for the rest of us to protect ourself and develop a proper relationship with God. I sometimes wonder just how far God goes with His election of a person. Obviously nothing is beyond God. But I wonder about free will and how much God intervenes to shape free will. We are all a product of our environment and God is the one who sets all stages for us to act on.

[Vivian]

Hi franktalk -

I believe there is much more going on for a soul than what we see in any one life, and so souls are born with predispositions - their own crosses that they have to carry. And sometimes no matter what one does, a child will find evil, because they are predisposed to seeking after it. Actually, it is better said, as you have offered, that we are each going to find the evil that is our personal temptation - or it will find us - no matter how we are parented! Or protected!

I believe that Jesus was telling us, in praying to not be led into temptation, to pray for protection, for the archons of this world to not be given the power and opportunity to play on our weaknesses, until we have been strengthened.

A good analogy is a vaccine - for God to intervene with a small bit of poison for us to deal with, instead of a full fledged overdose! I find that this occurs when we have been blessed with a Sanctuary of Grace, when we have been allowed into the fellowship of a true Apostle, who by his very presence creates a sanctuary where purification can take place under the most auspicious circumstances.

But I agree that we cannot remove all temptation from this world, for that is why this world is here - to transform us into sons of God by facing and overcoming our bestial natures. And this cannot be done except in our being exposed to darkness!

Shalom!

Viv

[OtherCheek]

Vivian ,

Pornography is but one of many stumbling blocks. Since it is tied to our sexual nature it has strong connections to our flesh.

Now would the world be better off without it? I am sure it would. But how are we to do that? Kill the makers of pornography? I doubt if even that would work.

There are some in our society that separate themselves from temptation. This is done in a noble cause and appears to work well for those who do it. If it is choice then I have no problem with isolation if that is what one wants. Some may feel that removing temptation for children is a wise move. I would have to agree. But at some point those who will become evil will become evil. Those that are not the elect have for some reason been given over to Satan. But those people in displaying their evil serve as an image for the rest of us to protect ourself and develop a proper relationship with God. I sometimes wonder just how far God goes with His election of a person. Obviously nothing is beyond God. But I wonder about free will and how much God intervenes to shape free will. We are all a product of our environment and God is the one who sets all stages for us to act on.

"In the world, but not OF the world."

Temptation is a fact of this mortal experience. And while we cannot extract ourselves from this world and our own flesh, we do have control over many things. We can choose to turn away, or we can choose to linger, like David of Old, and take a second look. As far as pornography, I believe this is an addiction that has real connections to the pleasure centers of the brain. I believe all sin can be addictive in this way, but especially sexual sin. I think it wise to do all in our power to protect ourselves and be watchmen on the tower for our own families and those over whom we have stewardship.

In the end, through the power of the Savior and Atonement, our desires for sin can be overcome, and without the Savior, I believe NO device can be effective in overcoming sin and temptation.

From my perspective we are products of several things--environment being one of them. I also believe that we brought some things with us including weaknesses and strengths, things to humble us, and gifts to be a blessing to others. I think some people, are naturally more sensitive and receptive to spiritual light than others. We cannot always judge who is and who isn't, but God can, of course.

[Cow Poke]

"In the world, but not OF the world."

Temptation is a fact of this mortal experience. And while we cannot extract ourselves from this world and our own flesh, we do have control over many things. We can choose to turn away, or we can choose to linger, like David of Old, and take a second look. As far as pornography, I believe this is an addiction that has real connections to the pleasure centers of the brain. I believe all sin can be addictive in this way, but especially sexual sin. I think it wise to do all in our power to protect ourselves and be watchmen on the tower for our own families and those over whom we have stewardship.

I'm with you up to here....

In the end, through the power of the Savior and Atonement, our desires for sin can be overcome, and without the Savior, I believe NO device can be effective in overcoming sin and temptation.

But I don't get the "no device" thing... care to elaborate?

From my perspective we are products of several things--environment being one of them. I also believe that we brought some things with us including weaknesses and strengths, things to humble us, and gifts to be a blessing to others. I think some people, are naturally more sensitive and receptive to spiritual light than others. We cannot always judge who is and who isn't, but God can, of course.

"brought some things with us"?

[OtherCheek]

I'm with you up to here....



But I don't get the "no device" thing... care to elaborate?

Device meaning "vehicle" or "construct" such as sheer determination and discipline, yoga, meditation, habit-breaking drugs, internet filters, Self-help seminars, community addiction programs, 12 step programs, doctors, sciences, philosophies, government programs, NYT bestsellers, etc.

None of these "constructs" of man can work for us in a lasting, life-changing fashion, without the Savior's Atonement. Conversely, can we expect God to do for us what he has given us power to do for ourselves? No. I don't believe so. We do what we can, and what we have power to do, and ask for God's favour in doing for us what we don't have the power to do.

"brought some things with us"?

So I believe.