Mormon's Deny Paul the Apostle the Sacrament

[digits]

Mormon's do not allow prisoners to receive the sacrament in prison. Paul was in prison quite often and would have been denied the sacrament. How does that square up? Seems a bit strange.

[Sparko]

[Cow Poke]

Mormon's do not allow prisoners to receive the sacrament in prison. Paul was in prison quite often and would have been denied the sacrament. How does that square up? Seems a bit strange.

Can somebody please set Digits straight and prove to him that prisoners DO receive the sacrament?

(If, in fact, that's the case )

Thanks.

[LDSTrue]

Mormon's do not allow prisoners to receive the sacrament in prison. Paul was in prison quite often and would have been denied the sacrament. How does that square up? Seems a bit strange.

So Digit, you don't perceive the colossal difference between the Apostle Paul being unjustly imprisoned for teaching and preaching Jesus and His kingdom established and those imprisoned today convicted of serious crimes?

What do you think the purpose of partaking of the sacrament is in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

[Sparko]

what about baptism if you are in prison?

and do you lose your temple recommend?

[Sparko]

So Digit, you don't perceive the colossal difference between the Apostle Paul being unjustly imprisoned for teaching and preaching Jesus and His kingdom established and those imprisoned today convicted of serious crimes?

What do you think the purpose of partaking of the sacrament is in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

pretty much everyone in prison says they are unjustly imprisoned. I am sure the romans thought Paul was justly imprisoned.

[LDSTrue]

pretty much everyone in prison says they are unjustly imprisoned.

And you believe them?

Most, if not all, were found guilty after receiving a fair trail so...

I am sure the romans thought Paul was justly imprisoned.

It wasn't the Romans, or any Government for that matter, in charge of administering the sacrament so what they thought would have no bearing on who was/is actually worthy to receive the sacrament from the members of the church.

Had Peter, James or John been in the area and Paul made it known he wanted them to partake of the sacrament with him I'm sure the Apostles would have made the arrangements.

Would you agree, regardless of where the Apostle Paul was, he remained worthy in the church's eyes to partake of the sacrament until his dying day?

- - - You finished your awfully fast, hopefully you didn't choke on it.

[Sparko]

And you believe them?

Most, if not all, were found guilty after receiving a fair trail so...



It wasn't the Romans, or any Government for that matter, in charge of administering the sacrament so what they thought would have no bearing on who was/is actually worthy to receive the sacrament from the members of the church.

so if if the LDS church believes a prisoner is falsely imprisoned they can have communion in prison then? I thought the rule was that no communion was allowed inside a prison. period.

Would you agree, regardless of where the Apostle Paul was, he remained worthy in the church's eyes to partake of the sacrament until his dying day?

I think all Christians should be able to take the sacrament wherever they are.

Even if a prisoner is guilty of a crime and then comes to Christ while in prison, are not his past sins washed away according to the LDS? Why can't he then take the sacrament in prison?

[Cow Poke]

what about baptism if you are in prison?

and do you lose your temple recommend?

What if you read the BoM in prison, get the burning in the bosom, get forgiven of your sins, but you're still there for a crime you actually committed.

Is there no forgiveness? I mean, sure, he did the crime, and should do the time, but SPIRITUALLY, can he be saved and forgiven? If so, no sacraments?

ETA: I shoulda completely read Sparko's post - GMTA... so, YEAH, THAT!

[Sparko]

What if you read the BoM in prison, get the burning in the bosom, get forgiven of your sins, but you're still there for a crime you actually committed.

Is there no forgiveness? I mean, sure, he did the crime, and should do the time, but SPIRITUALLY, can he be saved and forgiven? If so, no sacraments?

heck if they can't do the sacraments, then they can't even obey Jesus' first command to be baptized.

Oh well. more souls for us then. When they see how wacked out the LDS are they can just ask the Baptist preacher to baptize them into real Christianity. Right there in the prison.

[digits]

LDS True,

I believe there are many prisoners in prison that have been unjustly treated. This is showing up more and more now with DNA testing proving they may not have committed these crimes. For you to expect that everyone in prison is justified in being there is absurd.

Some trials can take months and even years to process... so much for "speedy" justice. While these people are in prison not yet accused I do not believe they are allowed to take the sacrament in the Mormon church.

I don't think this is that big of a deal really just another strange teaching in my opinion. Since blacks are unequally proportionate in prison I tend to wonder if there is a race thing going on here as well.

Digital Inkling

[nrajeff]

so if if the LDS church believes a prisoner is falsely imprisoned they can have communion in prison then? I thought the rule was that no communion was allowed inside a prison. period.

---On what site did you find THAT policy listed? I'd say that falsely accused prisoners should be able to have the sacramement. Didn't Smith and co. have it while they were in prison after having been victims of false arrest?

I think all Christians should be able to take the sacrament wherever they are.

---1 Cor. 11

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Even if a prisoner is guilty of a crime and then comes to Christ while in prison, are not his past sins washed away according to the LDS?

--LDS follow the Bible's teaching about faith in Jesus, repentance, and baptism being a way sins are remitted. So I reckon a convicted burglar who has faith in Jesus and repents while in prison should be eligible to be baptized, and thus have his sins remitted through Jesus' Atonement. But serving out his sentence may be a condition of demonstrated repentance. When you do the crime and are repentant, doing the time is part of the restitution process which is part of repenting and which leads to forgiveness. If you haven't done your time, you haven't paid the debt that you owe.

[Sparko]

---On what site did you find THAT policy listed? I'd say that falsely accused prisoners should be able to have the sacramement. Didn't Smith and co. have it while they were in prison after having been victims of false arrest?

did they? and can you give me any examples of modern day prisoners getting the sacrament from the LDS church while in prison? the only references I could find were to them not getting it.

---1 Cor. 11

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

and how does that prevent someone from taking the communion in prison? If they are serving their sentence and have repented, then they are worthy.

--LDS follow the Bible's teaching about faith in Jesus, repentance, and baptism being a way sins are remitted. So I reckon a convicted burglar who has faith in Jesus and repents while in prison should be eligible to be baptized, and thus have his sins remitted through Jesus' Atonement. But serving out his sentence may be a condition of demonstrated repentance. When you do the crime and are repentant, doing the time is part of the restitution process which is part of repenting and which leads to forgiveness. If you haven't done your time, you haven't paid the debt that you owe.

Repentence is not the same as "paying for the crime" - Repentence is an attitude of turning away from your sin. a change of mind. You can be repentant and still serve your sentence and still be worthy to take communion.

[Cow Poke]

---On what site did you find THAT policy listed? I'd say that falsely accused prisoners should be able to have the sacramement. Didn't Smith and co. have it while they were in prison after having been victims of false arrest?

Jeff,
I have not yet seen "that policy" listed on official Mormon sites, but you can easily find it referred to on Mormon Prison Ministry sites. When people write in to ask the kinds of questions asked here, the reply is "No sacraments are allowed within the confines of a prison". They include Baptism, and simply cite "church rule".

I realize your opinion is that Smith was "falsely arrested", but I don't think you can demonstrate that. He was arrested for the destruction of the printing press, no? I realize you believe he was justified in his rationale, but that does not mean he was "falsely arrested".

And, WHO makes the determination that a prisoner is "falsely accused". If that is a legal determination, then they are no longer in prison! I've done lots of prison ministry, and RARELY find somebody who is NOT "falsely accused" or "set up". And I have baptized prisoners in prison on more than a few occasions.

---1 Cor. 11

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

We use those same verses at Communion.

--LDS follow the Bible's teaching about faith in Jesus, repentance, and baptism being a way sins are remitted. So I reckon a convicted burglar who has faith in Jesus and repents while in prison should be eligible to be baptized, and thus have his sins remitted through Jesus' Atonement. But serving out his sentence may be a condition of demonstrated repentance. When you do the crime and are repentant, doing the time is part of the restitution process which is part of repenting and which leads to forgiveness. If you haven't done your time, you haven't paid the debt that you owe.

As I had already said....

Is there no forgiveness? I mean, sure, he did the crime, and should do the time, but SPIRITUALLY, can he be saved and forgiven? If so, no sacraments?

[OtherCheek]

Mormon's do not allow prisoners to receive the sacrament in prison. Paul was in prison quite often and would have been denied the sacrament. How does that square up? Seems a bit strange.

We also don't allow prisoners to enter the temple while they are confined in prison.

The LDS meetings in the prisons are conducted much like sacrament meetings outside the prison, -- (Open to all who wish to attend), but the sacrament is not administered. This practice would be "POLICY". Not "doctrine".

In attendance at these meetings are a wide variety of people from LDS to non LDS, from criminals and sexual offenders to the wrongfully accused to people who did wrong but did not know they were doing wrong. Usually, the majority of attendees are not LDS, or are LDS people who are there for good reason and are not wrongfully there. Sex offenders, liars, cheats, scoundrels, etc. may be among them.

I would surmise that it would be inappropriate, were the sacrament administered in a public setting, as is done in sacrament meetings outside prison, because the sacrament is not to be administered to those who are unworthy of it. And most of those who would be offered it, WOULD fall into that category.

As far as exceptions in a private setting, I have never heard of a policy that would prevent a worthy person from receiving the sacrament if he were to petition their Bishop, and if it were determined that they were wrongfully imprisoned.

In the end, God is our judge. And partaking of the sacrament does not make or break the salvation of a man or woman.

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