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  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    Eh, he wasn't making a formal argument. You've been really jumpy on the logical fallacies where they don't exist lately. Knock it off. It makes you look silly.
    Ah, so it was an informal argumentum ad populum fallacy! Gotcha!
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      Ah, so it was an informal argumentum ad populum fallacy! Gotcha!
      Oh, that's a real knee slapper. No, no. It wasn't an informal argument either. Maybe if you don't know what a logical fallacy is, you shouldn't throw around the accusation. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open yer yap, and all that.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        Oh, that's a real knee slapper. No, no. It wasn't an informal argument either. Maybe if you don't know what a logical fallacy is, you shouldn't throw around the accusation. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open yer yap, and all that.
        Glad you enjoyed it.

        Now why don't you address the issue rather than trying to find fault with your interlocutor, which is all you seem to do. .
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
          Glad you enjoyed it.

          Now why don't you address the issue rather than trying to find fault with your interlocutor, which is all you seem to do. .
          I'd find less fault if you made fewer. Which particular issue were you expecting me to address?

          Comment


          • Australia? ECREE!!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              Argumentum ad populum fallacy!

              More to the point, those who have experienced Australia can provide objective evidence of its existence whereas those who claim to have experienced the divine cannot provide objective evidence of their alleged experience.
              Please go to my other thread, http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...=australianism, and provide such objective evidence for this Australia.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                Please go to my other thread, http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...=australianism, and provide such objective evidence for this Australia.
                You are (typically) misrepresenting the facts of the argument...you ought to be Trump's spin doctor. He needs you.

                My argument was that personal testimony of a purely subjective experience, e.g. alien abduction or a mystical divine experience, cannot be verified without substantiated supportive evidence. Conversely, the the existence of the continent of Australia can be substantiated by supportive evidence
                Last edited by Tassman; 03-22-2017, 10:57 PM.
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                  You are (typically) misrepresenting the facts of the argument...you ought to be Trump's spin doctor. He needs you.

                  My argument was that personal testimony of a purely subjective experience, e.g. alien abduction or a mystical divine experience, cannot be verified without substantiated supportive evidence. Conversely, the the existence of the continent of Australia can be substantiated by supportive evidence
                  So go to my thread and prove it to me. seriously. What are you afraid of?

                  You don't think people can find ways to ignore any evidence they don't want to accept? You don't accept eye witness testimony for religion. You also won't accept reports of miracles, prophesies, the evidence of the world around you, and you would find a way to deny God even if he sent you a video tape of himself. Or if he appeared in front of you. You would claim it was a hoax, or a trick, or you had a stroke. If you don't want to believe something then you won't. And you don't. So don't go around pretending to be open-minded and just not having enough evidence. The fact is nothing would be enough evidence for you because you are close-minded on the topic. You have your mind made up and nothing will change it. You can always find an excuse to reject any evidence provided to you.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    You really don't get it do you?

                    Personal testimony is accepted unless it can be proven to be unreliable. It is defacto accepted as true unless shown otherwise. That is how the courts work.
                    It wasn't how the court worked when I served on a jury.

                    Personal testimony was considered neither true nor false, but as something that may be either true or false, reliable or unreliable. It is rarely the substantive evidence - that would typically be forensic or documentary, and for the cases I was juror consisted of physical exhibits and interview transcripts.

                    In most respects the personal testimonies as regards the facts of the case were agreed by both parties, and it was the motives and level of awareness of those facts that were under dispute. The witnesses' testimonies thereon were certainly not accepted as true unless shown otherwise.
                    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      It wasn't how the court worked when I served on a jury.

                      Personal testimony was considered neither true nor false, but as something that may be either true or false, reliable or unreliable. It is rarely the substantive evidence - that would typically be forensic or documentary, and for the cases I was juror consisted of physical exhibits and interview transcripts.

                      In most respects the personal testimonies as regards the facts of the case were agreed by both parties, and it was the motives and level of awareness of those facts that were under dispute. The witnesses' testimonies thereon were certainly not accepted as true unless shown otherwise.
                      Was it accepted as evidence that the jury would evaluate along with all of the other evidence in the case? Yes, it was. I never said you had to believe it, or that the Jury had to believe it. I said it was considered reliable evidence in a case unless the witness could be compromised and shown in court to be perjuring themselves at which time the testimony would be thrown out. As far as the court is concerned if it is accepted as evidence then it is not false and it true. It is up to the jury whether to believe it or not.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Was it accepted as evidence that the jury would evaluate along with all of the other evidence in the case? Yes, it was. I never said you had to believe it, or that the Jury had to believe it. I said it was considered reliable evidence in a case unless the witness could be compromised and shown in court to be perjuring themselves at which time the testimony would be thrown out. As far as the court is concerned if it is accepted as evidence then it is not false and it true. It is up to the jury whether to believe it or not.
                        “Personal testimony” is considered neutral unless it can be supported by substantive, credible evidence.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          “Personal testimony” is considered neutral unless it can be supported by substantive, credible evidence.
                          No Tassman, it's not. I have been in trials as a juror, and worked many trials as support staff. I have seen entire cases turn on one witness testimony. Especially in civil trials that are pretty much "he said/she said" like personal liability. You can have evidence such as a dented car, but without eye witness testimony you can't determine what happened. The eye witness testimony is the key to the trial. The dented car is just what is being sued for. If you have two or more eye witnesses that say the defendant caused the dent, guess who gets believed?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Was it accepted as evidence that the jury would evaluate along with all of the other evidence in the case? Yes, it was. I never said you had to believe it, or that the Jury had to believe it. I said it was considered reliable evidence in a case unless the witness could be compromised and shown in court to be perjuring themselves at which time the testimony would be thrown out.
                            What you actually said was that "It is defacto accepted as true unless shown otherwise." That wasn't the case. It can't possibly be the case since that would often lead to accepting as true two contradictory testimonies.
                            As far as the court is concerned if it is accepted as evidence then it is not false and it true.
                            As far as the court is concerned it is evidence that may be false and may be true. They do not accept witness testimony as true unless proven otherwise, or as false until proven otherwise, they accept is as having unknown veracity and, as you say,
                            It is up to the jury whether to believe it or not.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              If you have two or more eye witnesses that say the defendant caused the dent, guess who gets believed?
                              The CCTV footage.
                              Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                              MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                              MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                              seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                What you actually said was that "It is defacto accepted as true unless shown otherwise." That wasn't the case. As far as the court is concerned it is evidence that may be false and may be true. They do not accept witness testimony as true unless proven otherwise, or as false until proven otherwise, they accept is as having unknown veracity and, as you say,
                                Roy I am not going to get into a nitpicking fight with you. The court does not accept false evidence. If the evidence is known to be false then it is rejected. Therefore all evidence presented to the jury to deliberate over is considered true and under sworn oath. The Jury can decide to accept or reject that testimony based on their own feelings, in concert with other evidence, or any other standard they want to use.

                                Comment

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