Announcement

Collapse

Apologetics 301 Guidelines

If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you


This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Effective Altruism

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    ...Yet you've display what seems to be an unduly extreme level of skepticism, that crosses into trolling....
    Here's trolling --- you, an avowed atheist, take the time and effort to sweep the internetzweb looking for extreme cases of Christians acting badly, then you bring those to a Christian run website and pretend that those examples are typical of Christianity.

    It would be like me going to an atheist website and using you as an example, demanding that ALL atheists (or that it's typical of atheists to) champion the murder of newborns, infants and small children.

    THAT, my friend, would be trolling.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      As it happens I am relatively young (in my 30s) and have accumulated very little stuff as yet to sell off and give away. I am, however, currently trying to be more minimalist in my life and get rid of about a third of the stuff I do have.
      Good, let's see how long that lasts.
      Generally being in one's 30s lasts ten years.

      No I was speaking of my experience in Soup Kitchens and Shelters - I knew the people involved and their Church affiliation. And BTW - our local Soup Kitchen and Shelter get the bulk of their funding, food and clothing from the local Churches. The fact is what you call Effective altruism has been practiced by the Church for centuries.You are late to the game. And unoriginal.
      Generally effective altruists would tend to conclude that soup kitchens and shelters are not effective altruism on the grounds that the funds could have potentially been spent on more effective and efficient charities.

      One of the points of effective altruism is using science and math to identify the ways of getting the absolute most bang for our buck in terms of positive consequences. Effective altruists would ask questions like: Are their other soup kitchens and shelters operating in the area? What other options would these people have if your charity didn't exist? How much good is your particular shelter adding as a consequence? What are the money and volunteer resources going into your charity, and how much good is being achieved per volunteer hour and per dollar? Are there other charitable options available that would achieve more good per volunteer hour and dollar than your charity?
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I think it's possible for a bad person to do good things. I also think it's possible for a good person to do bad things.
        Tass is referring to the fact that some Christians in history have taken the view that it is not ever possible to perform a "truly good" action on account of the fact that we are sinners. If you have a look over the history of the Augustine vs Pelagius debates, what Luther and Calvin thought as compared to Aquinas etc, you'll find a variety of different views on what it means to have been made in the image of God, and on the severity of the damage done to human nature by original sin, and consequently a range of views as to how 'good' or 'bad' the average human is and whether they have the moral capacity to ever do a single "truly good" act.

        I find it a little strange the extent to which you often say effectively "well I don't teach that / do that / say it like that, so it's unreasonable for any atheists to observe that some other Christians do teach that / do that / say that." You sometimes seem to be in a bit of a small bubble with both your limited knowledge of what different Christian groups teach and your assumption that your own views are normal or normative. Thus you give responses like the above, and like this one, as if you were the gatekeeper of what is and isn't 'typical of Christianity':
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Here's trolling --- you, an avowed atheist, take the time and effort to sweep the internetzweb looking for extreme cases of Christians acting badly, then you bring those to a Christian run website and pretend that those examples are typical of Christianity.


        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        I think that's a steaming pile of horsie poo.
        I would put a head-scratch smiley here but TWeb spits a 500 error at me when I click the [More] link for more smilies.
        Are you saying Tass is lying? He says he personally saw it happening. His claims don't strike me as at all implausible: Christians doing aid work took the opportunity to try to do some evangelism. IMO, nothing could be less surprising.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          I think that's a steaming pile of horsie poo.
          I've seen that sort of behavior before - up close and personal.
          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Did your momma drop you on your head?
            I think she stepped on it.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Did your momma drop you on your head?
              I'm going with drop kicked.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                I think that's a steaming pile of horsie poo.
                Immoral is what I call it. I told the "victims' to take what was offered, then replace their amulets (worn by virtually every Thai) and throw away the bibles.
                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  I would put a head-scratch smiley here but TWeb spits a 500 error at me when I click the [More] link for more smilies.
                  Yes I have that problem. Why is that you think?

                  Are you saying Tass is lying? He says he personally saw it happening. His claims don't strike me as at all implausible: Christians doing aid work took the opportunity to try to do some evangelism. IMO, nothing could be less surprising.
                  Yes they’re saying I’m lying, reality is embarrassing for them. I was in Phuket during the 2004 tsunami; I watched it from my balcony overlooking Patong Beach and it was devastating.

                  The Evangelical outreach in Thailand is minuscule and, I'm pleased to say, quite ineffective in this devoutly Buddhist country. Consequently the missionaries seem to resort to “rice Christian” methodology, even to the extent of offering cartons of beer to young men in exchange for attending the gospel-meetings in their little shop-front churches. I’ve seen this firsthand among the Phuket Sea Gypsies...and the same cynical approach was taken by the same people during the desperate aftermath of the tsunami.
                  “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Immoral is what I call it.
                    Yeah, I'm really worried about what you call immoral.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Are you saying Tass is lying?
                      No, I'm saying I don't believe him.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        No, I'm saying I don't believe him.
                        Of course you don't. "Denial" is your middle name.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          Of course you don't. "Denial" is your middle name.
                          That's such a juvenile response. That's all you are, Tazzy -- a big goofus with ZERO credibility.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Generally being in one's 30s lasts ten years.
                            Unless you're a woman, then it lasts as long as you continue to dye your hair.

                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The problem with utilitarianism as described in the OP is that it hijacks an individual (or a group) and demands that they do the best for everybody, all without justification. It simply proclaims that the utilitarian goal must be the goal that we should aim for, irrespective of our own personal needs (except insofar as they too serve utilitarianism).
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                                The problem with utilitarianism as described in the OP is that it hijacks an individual (or a group) and demands that they do the best for everybody, all without justification.
                                You're going to need to unpack that if you want me to understand what you mean by it. I note that any idea of morality makes demands on individuals or groups. That's not a 'problem' that's unique to utilitarianism. Obviously any atheists who are utilitarians, such as myself, feel that there is sufficient justification for our own utilitarianism, so I'm not sure what you mean by 'without justification'.

                                It simply proclaims that the utilitarian goal must be the goal that we should aim for, irrespective of our own personal needs (except insofar as they too serve utilitarianism).
                                Your statements seem bizarre given they are coming from someone who purportedly holds to a religions that teaches that God's commands / goals must be the goals that people aim for irrespective of their own person needs. So I am confused as to how you are objecting to the idea of believing in overarching goals that we should subordinate our lives to.

                                I'm vaguely aware, to the extent I ever read your posts, that you seem to hold some sort of nihilist and social-Darwinist views, or perhaps appear to think that atheists ought to hold such views. (Offhand I can't say I'm aware of any atheists of my acquaintance or whom I follow online who holds to either one of those) So are you simply trying to argue that utilitarianism is not a justifiable position to hold if one is an atheist? (It seems like the existence of the high percentage of atheists who are utilitarians would hence need some explaining on your part)
                                Last edited by Starlight; 03-06-2017, 02:20 AM.
                                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by whag, Yesterday, 03:01 PM
                                39 responses
                                137 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-17-2024, 04:55 PM
                                21 responses
                                129 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Started by whag, 03-14-2024, 06:04 PM
                                80 responses
                                425 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post tabibito  
                                Started by whag, 03-13-2024, 12:06 PM
                                45 responses
                                303 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X