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How many Native Americans were directly killed by whites (and vice versa)?

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  • How many Native Americans were directly killed by whites (and vice versa)?

    I know the indigenous population of the Americas was decimated when European settlers came. But I've also heard that most of those deaths were due to disease. Does anyone know how many deaths were a direct result of combat/murder/massacres? What about the number of whites killed by Native Americans? I'm assuming the number of deaths from black/native combat is small compared to white/native combat, but maybe I'm wrong.
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  • #2
    Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post
    I know the indigenous population of the Americas was decimated when European settlers came. But I've also heard that most of those deaths were due to disease. Does anyone know how many deaths were a direct result of combat/murder/massacres? What about the number of whites killed by Native Americans? I'm assuming the number of deaths from black/native combat is small compared to white/native combat, but maybe I'm wrong.
    Without any records no credible numbers can be ascertained just WAGs.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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    • #3
      Originally posted by stfoskey15 View Post
      I know the indigenous population of the Americas was decimated when European settlers came. But I've also heard that most of those deaths were due to disease. Does anyone know how many deaths were a direct result of combat/murder/massacres? What about the number of whites killed by Native Americans? I'm assuming the number of deaths from black/native combat is small compared to white/native combat, but maybe I'm wrong.
      Its hard to say. Their seems to be a high number related to small pox and other diseases, however at some point there is a high number due to refusal to convert to European religion/slavery. I need to look up the statistics or rather estimated statistics.
      A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
      George Bernard Shaw

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
        Its hard to say. Their seems to be a high number related to small pox and other diseases, however at some point there is a high number due to refusal to convert to European religion/slavery. I need to look up the statistics or rather estimated statistics.
        Considering that original population estimates vary wildly, the fact were covering several centuries, and casualty statistics weren't recorded any numbers are, as I said, going to be WAGs.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Not enough.
          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
            Not enough.
            You're thinking of one in particular aren't you?

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              The traditional number is somewhere around 11 million, though there have been significant challenges to it in recent years.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Without any records no credible numbers can be ascertained just WAGs.
                Killing off the Buffalo led to death of thousands if not Native American alone. Ethnic cleansing and eviction from their tribal home lands as Jackson did in Florida led to the death of even more thousands.

                The history of our relationship to the Native Americans preferred indirect methods like breaking existing treaties, providing small pox infected blankets, and destruction of resources, but some slaughter did in reality occur when confronted with resistance.
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-05-2017, 08:09 PM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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                • #9
                  I know the 18th century or the Trail of tears would have the best estimate for the Cherokee Tribe. However Smallpox and other diseases would be especially hard to estimate on the Taino and Arawak tribes. Aztec tribes seem to have gone extinct by intermarrying and death however some small pockets of Mayan Natives appear to exist in small pockets especially in the Mountains of Mexico and Incan tribes exist in small pockets in South America. Other extinct tribes it seems to be disease and war and we don't know which was more predominant. And then of course intermarriage. I've manage to trace a large line to Cherokee Natives after the trail of tears from North Carolina to Alabama and some mananged to stay in North Carolina because of Appearance so they didn't have to go on the trail.
                  A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                  George Bernard Shaw

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                  • #10
                    There are theories that the very early explorers released viruses into the Americas that wiped out a hundred million Indians.
                    I've read these theories as explanations for the supposed remains of extensive irrigation systems and so forth.
                    The idea is that the somewhat primitive Indians found later on were the remnant of a decimated civilization.
                    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                      There are theories that the very early explorers released viruses into the Americas that wiped out a hundred million Indians.
                      I've read these theories as explanations for the supposed remains of extensive irrigation systems and so forth.
                      The idea is that the somewhat primitive Indians found later on were the remnant of a decimated civilization.
                      Being isolated from the diseases that had swept Euroasia for centuries meant that the indigenous people had no immunity to them and were exposed to them all at once. When some settlers like the Pilgrims and Puritans came to the New World they were amazed how the land had been largely cleared and was perfect for cultivation and assumed that it was the result of God's providence. Little did they realize it was the result of natives who had recently been cultivating the land being exposed to diseases from much earlier explorers that spread across the continent from tribe to tribe.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This thread seems to imply the killing has stopped.
                        The last Christian left at tweb

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trout View Post
                          This thread seems to imply the killing has stopped.
                          They keep breedin'.
                          Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trout View Post
                            This thread seems to imply the killing has stopped.
                            Just slowed down.
                            I'm not here anymore.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              providing small pox infected blankets
                              This almost never actually happened.
                              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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