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  • #31
    Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
    Why get political power if you cannot use it to squash your enemies?
    The goal of winning an election is so you can crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      It seems The New York Times is so desperate to wash Obama's hands of this scandal that they've inadvertently thrown themselves under the bus!

      So here's the set-up:

      Source: The New York Times

      Mr. Trump’s demand for a congressional investigation appears to be based, at least in part, on unproved claims by Breitbart News and conservative talk radio hosts that secret warrants were issued authorizing the tapping of the phones of Mr. Trump and his aides at Trump Tower in New York.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/u...is-phones.html

      © Copyright Original Source


      You see that? They call these "unproved claims". But here's the punchline (emphasis added):

      Source: Breitbart

      The Breitbart article in question (which Schmidt and Shear do not link to) cites the Times’ own reporting on the intelligence community. Their January 19th article, “Intercepted Russian Communications Part of Inquiry Into Trump Associates,” also bore Schmidt’s byline.

      An editorial note at this link reveals that the print version of this article was headlined: “Wiretapped Data Used in Inquiry of Trump Aides.”

      It quotes an anonymous source who says that “wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House” as part of an investigation into “the business dealings that some of the president-elect’s past and present advisers have had with Russia.”

      http://www.breitbart.com/big-journal...n-wiretapping/

      © Copyright Original Source


      Oops...

      So it's not a question of if the Obama administration wiretapped Trump's communications, it's to what extent they did. And, of course, the obvious follow-up: What did Obama know, and when did he know it?
      MM, you are confusing the fact that the FBI uses wiretaps to garner information with the idea that those taps were placed directly on the phones of Trump and his associates headquartered in Trump Tower. The FBI doesn't have to place wiretaps on Trump tower in order to pick up communications between the Russians and people headquartered in Trump Tower.

      Beyond that, the problem now, which apparently Trump was just to ignorant to understand, is that if a FISA warrant was issued to wiretap Trump, then the FBI presented evidence to the court, and the FISA court agreed with the evidence, to the degree that the warrant was issued. So, Trump just put himself in a lose - lose situation. If it is true that a FISA warrant was issued, then there is evidence of collusion with the Russians, but, if there was no warrant issued, which apparently there was not, then Trump is either a complete ignoramus, or a blatant liar, the latter of which, of course, we already know to be a fact, and has now put himself in legal jeopardy.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by JimLamebrain View Post
        If it is true that a FISA warrant was issued, then there is evidence of collusion with the Russians...
        Are you really this ignorant?
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #34
          Source: Breitbart

          The New York Times is referring to the story of the Obama administration conducting, then leaking, surveillance of Donald Trump’s campaign as a “conspiracy theory,” even though the story is largely based on the Times’ own recent reporting.

          The Times‘ effort to deny “DeepStateGate” seems to rest entirely on the argument that the Obama administration did not tap Trump’s “phones.” President Trump used that term in a tweet about the scandal, and the Times is now using that to deny the story as a whole.

          But the basic elements of the story remain the same, regardless of whether the surveillance targeted Trump’s “phones,” a computer server at Trump Tower (the subject of speculation even during the campaign), or other communications. Whatever method used, under whatever justification (FISA court or otherwise), the fact remains — as reported repeatedly by the Times — that the last administration conducted surveillance on the Trump campaign, whose results were disseminated and leaked.

          http://www.breitbart.com/big-journal...deepstategate/

          © Copyright Original Source

          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Source: Breitbart

            The New York Times is referring to the story of the Obama administration conducting, then leaking, surveillance of Donald Trump’s campaign as a “conspiracy theory,” even though the story is largely based on the Times’ own recent reporting.

            The Times‘ effort to deny “DeepStateGate” seems to rest entirely on the argument that the Obama administration did not tap Trump’s “phones.” President Trump used that term in a tweet about the scandal, and the Times is now using that to deny the story as a whole.

            But the basic elements of the story remain the same, regardless of whether the surveillance targeted Trump’s “phones,” a computer server at Trump Tower (the subject of speculation even during the campaign), or other communications. Whatever method used, under whatever justification (FISA court or otherwise), the fact remains — as reported repeatedly by the Times — that the last administration conducted surveillance on the Trump campaign, whose results were disseminated and leaked.

            http://www.breitbart.com/big-journal...deepstategate/

            © Copyright Original Source

            You're a goof MM. The accussation "by Trump," with btw, no evidence to back it up, was that Obama had Trump himself wire tapped. Now of course if Trump actually had any evidence of this then surely he would make it known, but as is usual with Trump accussations, he has no evidence. And again, The Obama administration is not the FBI, is not the CIA, and is not the NSA, so if you are going to accuse the Obama administration of illegal activity then try being specific.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by JimL View Post
              You're a goof MM. The accussation "by Trump," with btw, no evidence to back it up, was that Obama had Trump himself wire tapped. Now of course if Trump actually had any evidence of this then surely he would make it known, but as is usual with Trump accussations, he has no evidence. And again, The Obama administration is not the FBI, is not the CIA, and is not the NSA, so if you are going to accuse the Obama administration of illegal activity then try being specific.
              The real question is, of course, how much Trump will get in trouble for slandering Obama and telling these lies to the public. Articles I saw today were discussing whether it might be possible to impeach Trump for this. It seems even Republican congressmen who previously supported Trump are turning against him over this, because even their tolerance for his idiocy has limits and they don't like him making utterly baseless public accusations that Obama committed a serious crime when Trump's claims are easily disproven.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Are you really this ignorant?
                That's the same claim made by NBC. It is very reminiscent of Edwin Meese's notorious line from a few decades back, "If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect" (which often gets misquoted as "the police don't suspect innocent people"). I mean, why even bother with a trial

                What they leave out is how multiple federal prosecutors say is just how easy it is to get a FISA warrant (about as easy as getting a grand jury indictment[1]) and the fact that it took them two tries to get one is extremely telling.

                Further, what is also getting left out of most coverage is that prior to June 2016, the Obama Department of Justice had contemplated conducting a criminal investigation of some of Trump's associates, and maybe even Trump himself, based on concerns about connections to Russian financial institutions. The preliminary examination revealed nothing criminal was going on which would almost always result in the case being shut down for lack of evidence. But instead of doing that Obama's Department of Justice decided to go on a fishing expedition and transformed it into a national-security investigation under FISA.

                All indications are that they still found nothing untoward and with all the leaking going on we would know if they had found anything.










                1. Bringing to mind the famous phrase coined by Sol Wachtler, chief judge of the New York State Court of Appeals as reported in the New York Daily News':
                Wachtler, who became the state's top judge earlier this month, said district attorneys now have so much influence on grand juries that "by and large" they could get them to "indict a ham sandwich."

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #38
                  C6QRFhSXMAESQK_.jpg

                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    What they leave out is how multiple federal prosecutors say is just how easy it is to get a FISA warrant (about as easy as getting a grand jury indictment[1]) and the fact that it took them two tries to get one is extremely telling.
                    I heard on the radio this morning that apparently the second request simply removed Trump's name and was immediately approved, but then Obama and his goons went ahead and monitored Trump's communications anyway.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      whether it might be possible to impeach Trump for this.
                      Yeah yeah I'm sure you crazies are gonna impeach Trump any day now.
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Source: Breitbart

                        The New York Times is referring to the story of the Obama administration conducting, then leaking, surveillance of Donald Trump’s campaign as a “conspiracy theory,” even though the story is largely based on the Times’ own recent reporting.

                        The Times‘ effort to deny “DeepStateGate” seems to rest entirely on the argument that the Obama administration did not tap Trump’s “phones.” President Trump used that term in a tweet about the scandal, and the Times is now using that to deny the story as a whole.

                        But the basic elements of the story remain the same, regardless of whether the surveillance targeted Trump’s “phones,” a computer server at Trump Tower (the subject of speculation even during the campaign), or other communications. Whatever method used, under whatever justification (FISA court or otherwise), the fact remains — as reported repeatedly by the Times — that the last administration conducted surveillance on the Trump campaign, whose results were disseminated and leaked.

                        http://www.breitbart.com/big-journal...deepstategate/

                        © Copyright Original Source

                        You're quoting Breitbart support of Trump's paranoid tweets, when all indications are they they were based by Trump on Breitbart gossip in the first place. A tad circular, no?
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          You're quoting Breitbart support of Trump's paranoid tweets, when all indications are they they were based by Trump on Breitbart gossip in the first place. A tad circular, no?
                          Circularity is MM's specialty. Each day he spends an hour walking in circles just to keep in practice. Then he spends the rest of the day indoctrinating himself with Breitbart, Limbaugh, and Hannity.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Circularity is MM's specialty. Each day he spends an hour walking in circles just to keep in practice. Then he spends the rest of the day indoctrinating himself with Breitbart, Limbaugh, and Hannity.
                            Oh, Limbaugh and Hannity as well? I had no idea MM was so widely read.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Oh, Limbaugh and Hannity as well? I had no idea MM was so widely read.
                              Actually I'm not sure about Hannity. He might be more an Alex Jones and Glenn Beck kinda guy.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
                                You're quoting Breitbart support of Trump's paranoid tweets, when all indications are they they were based by Trump on Breitbart gossip in the first place. A tad circular, no?
                                Are you illiterate? Breitbart's report simply quotes a number of stories from other sources, including The New York Times itself which explicitly reported that Trump's communications were "wiretapped" by the Obama administration. Of course after Breitbart diligently connected the dots, the Times suddenly called its own story into question, so either The New York Times was lying then, or they're lying now. Which one are you going with?
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

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